‘23 IL WR Carnell Tate (Ohio State commit)

#401
#401
marcusluvsvols said:
Look at the big brain on CobbWebb!!! Thanks broseph.

While i admit that I now feel a little embarrassed and almost hypocritical for not practicing what i preached...i did pick my screen handle in a rushed moment a decade ago after my 1st 2 choices were already take n. Thank you for pointing out my seemingly obvious oversight. Lol.

Sadly, i believe the only way one can change their callsign is by special permission from the Grand Poobah himself...Freak. Or maybe that changed when he overhauled VN a while back? In all honesty.. i know how to use very few features here bc I am lazy and have been known to let the red numbers up there ^^^ next to the bell on mobile get up to several thousand haha.

I post rarely but nearly always leave walls of text in my wake with zero regard for punctuation or brevity. Furiously thumbing about 60 words per minute like a texting 13yo girl... i have 1 of those for reference and the resemblance is uncanny. She is likely the most expensive thing I own...other than her Mom anyway.

Go VOLS!
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He'll change it for ye
@Freak
 
#403
#403
BigOrangeTrain said:
They do respect it but it’s an irrelevant stat if we are being honest.
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That can be an honest opinion and it will be Completely wrong.

You mean to tell me that Tyrik Hill would be as dominant if he ran 4.6 vs 4.2??


Is it the say all be all? No. But to say it's irrelevant is ridiculous. Irrelevant really??

How can you say speed is irrelevant? That's what the 40 measures. And Jerry Rice ran that 40 in bad shoes bad surface with a horrible start he never trained for. And he did it without split time electric laser. Or ir t probably would have shown his elite level acceleration.
 
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#404
#404
LittleVol said:
That can be an honest opinion and it will be Completely wrong.

You mean to tell me that Tyrik Hill would be as dominant if he ran 4.6 vs 4.2??


Is it the say all be all? No. But to say it's irrelevant is ridiculous. Irrelevant really??

How can you say speed is irrelevant? That's what the 40 measures. And Jerry Rice ran that 40 in bad shoes bad surface with a horrible start he never trained for. And he did it without split time electric laser. Or ir t probably would have shown his elite level acceleration.
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1648178437327.png

Going off of this, I don't think it's asinine to say 40 time doesn't matter. 40 times are like the SATs. The fact that you can train specifically for the drill and significantly improve your time pretty much indicates you probably aren't measuring the thing you are trying to measure.
 
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#405
#405
LittleVol said:
That can be an honest opinion and it will be Completely wrong.

You mean to tell me that Tyrik Hill would be as dominant if he ran 4.6 vs 4.2??


Is it the say all be all? No. But to say it's irrelevant is ridiculous. Irrelevant really??

How can you say speed is irrelevant? That's what the 40 measures. And Jerry Rice ran that 40 in bad shoes bad surface with a horrible start he never trained for. And he did it without split time electric laser. Or ir t probably would have shown his elite level acceleration.
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Speed matters. Have they watched Bama/UF/UGA torch us with speed for the last 15 years? Lol
 
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#406
#406
LittleVol said:
That can be an honest opinion and it will be Completely wrong.

You mean to tell me that Tyrik Hill would be as dominant if he ran 4.6 vs 4.2??


Is it the say all be all? No. But to say it's irrelevant is ridiculous. Irrelevant really??

How can you say speed is irrelevant? That's what the 40 measures. And Jerry Rice ran that 40 in bad shoes bad surface with a horrible start he never trained for. And he did it without split time electric laser. Or ir t probably would have shown his elite level acceleration.
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There is a huge difference between 40 times and football speed. You bring up Tyreek. So if the NFL didn’t have a 40 time, do you think Tyreek would somehow be worse? Jerry Rice was never a burner. Nowhere close to say a Randy Moss.

It’s becoming a joke that many mainly worry about a players 40 time. Even HOF TE Shannon Sharpe has echoed this. What do you think is more important, watching the speed of a player in an actual game with live action or a 40 time that’s measured with no pads or real life pressure? The 40 time thing is dumb.
 
#408
#408
Ten_Titans said:
View attachment 442299

Going off of this, I don't think it's asinine to say 40 time doesn't matter. 40 times are like the SATs. The fact that you can train specifically for the drill and significantly improve your time pretty much indicates you probably aren't measuring the thing you are trying to measure.
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Thanks for the data, and 4.53 is not slow.
(Reference the chart)
Also that chart is showing is that 3-5 round players are making a huge impact on average longer than a lot of 1st rounders.
Guess what? Not at all the point that he was trying to make.

The fact that you had an average of 4.53 having success proves the importance of measuring the 40 🙄.

Scouts don't just take the 40. There is the film and a whole bunch of other stuff.

With you and BOTs logic Randy Moss, Deion Sanders, Darrell Green, Joey Galloway would have made the same impact had they been 4.6 or 4.7 guys...

Just not true.

I don't know how anyone that has watched football could say speed is irrelevant 🙄.
Again, your chart proved that. 4.53 is not slow.
 
#409
#409
BigOrangeTrain said:
There is a huge difference between 40 times and football speed. You bring up Tyreek. So if the NFL didn’t have a 40 time, do you think Tyreek would somehow be worse? Jerry Rice was never a burner. Nowhere close to say a Randy Moss.

It’s becoming a joke that many mainly worry about a players 40 time. Even HOF TE Shannon Sharpe has echoed this. What do you think is more important, watching the speed of a player in an actual game with live action or a 40 time that’s measured with no pads or real life pressure? The 40 time thing is dumb.
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I think you're drawing an unnecessary line where there doesn't need to be.

It's not dumb. It's a process to measure a players explosive capabilities.

Of course at the end of the day they turn on the tape.

But here's an example of why the 40 is important. Sometimes you have these myths of great college players running legendary 40 times. And you look at their film and they are dominant...FOR COLLEGE.
Peter Warrick publically said he ran 4.28 while at FSU. Comes to the Combine and runs 4.56. He was a good player for the Bengals, but his lack of true speed did hurt him in the NFL. He was supposed to have that...
 
#410
#410
LittleVol said:
That can be an honest opinion and it will be Completely wrong.

You mean to tell me that Tyrik Hill would be as dominant if he ran 4.6 vs 4.2??


Is it the say all be all? No. But to say it's irrelevant is ridiculous. Irrelevant really??

How can you say speed is irrelevant? That's what the 40 measures. And Jerry Rice ran that 40 in bad shoes bad surface with a horrible start he never trained for. And he did it without split time electric laser. Or ir t probably would have shown his elite level acceleration.
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Link to the bad shoes and bad surface story?
 
#411
#411
Ten_Titans said:
View attachment 442299

Going off of this, I don't think it's asinine to say 40 time doesn't matter. 40 times are like the SATs. The fact that you can train specifically for the drill and significantly improve your time pretty much indicates you probably aren't measuring the thing you are trying to measure.
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Does this really say that 40 times don’t matter, or that when joined with draft round they’re not predictive? That would at least indicate that NFL teams overdraft players with fast times, but not necessarily that the fast times don’t matter.
 
#413
#413
Vols410 said:
Does this really say that 40 times don’t matter, or that when joined with draft round they’re not predictive? That would at least indicate that NFL teams overdraft players with fast times, but not necessarily that the fast times don’t matter.
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Going off of that chart, 40 time isn't predictive in any round.

I think it's a combination of two things. Speed being over rated and 40 time not actually measuring game speed all that well.

If you can improve your 40 time by practicing the 40 yard dash... What does that say about how that test translates to the field?

I guess my point is that real speed is obvious on film. There is no reason to do the 40 yard dash when you can just watch them play.
 
#414
#414
40yd time should be used as “part” of the process of evaluation. Not the Main part but part. The intended use is to confirm ok he is as fast as we think he is on film or oh he is slower/faster than we expected so let’s go back and evaluate his film more in depth to see what are we missing. Was it a bad day. Does he use other ways to beat people. Is he faster in football skills than a track event. Just like bench press isn’t a true measuring stick but it could bring up red flags that you need to go back to check film or ask around on. It’s all just finding ways to narrow down the field among so many players
 
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#415
#415
40 times matter in the context of other measurable factors. Someone with a great 40 and great shuttle... will probably have pretty good "football speed". You might even look at shorter distance "sprints" to gauge burst.

Guys can learn how to run better 40's. They have people who coach players up before combines. You have to evaluate broadly and not be tied to any one thing.

That said, I've said that Mizell and Kasper look better in their videos than Tate. That may not be a true reflection... but that opinion wasn't based on 40 times. It was based on how quickly those get off the line, make cuts, and then run at top speed.

PS- UT is in on a bunch of really talented WR's. We're basically arguing over the best flavor of ice cream. They're all great.
 
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#419
#419
Volsdeep4 said:
Seeing him in April. Can’t wait!
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Funny story. Guy went to the same High School I did...he graduated about 8 years earlier and I had no idea. Just found out about a month ago. Being a Catholic school, they denounced anything that had to do with him. There were always rumors in school that the guy they based Van Wilder on went there, but I never believed it.
 
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#424
#424
Ten_Titans said:
View attachment 442299

Going off of this, I don't think it's asinine to say 40 time doesn't matter. 40 times are like the SATs. The fact that you can train specifically for the drill and significantly improve your time pretty much indicates you probably aren't measuring the thing you are trying to measure.
Click to expand...

I think it may be better to say that faster is different rather than better. For instance, a curl or comeback can negate some of the impact speed can have since they break the WR’s momentum and have the turn back towards the LOS. On a go route, drag, slant, or other routes where the receiver can run for a long stretch without changing direction, speed is more impactful. Presumably, coordinators are designing plays so that your fast deep threat is running mostly fades, posts, etc.

One complicating factor to your chart, then, is the relative efficiency of different routes. What we can infer is that running deep routes is no more or less efficient than other types of throws in a per-route basis, which makes sense because if it were more efficient, teams would throw it deep more until defenses adjust and deep throws lost their relative efficiency as the middle and short throws open up. Additionally, it forces the defense to have different types of DB’s- if you have a 4.5 40, 6’4 220 type receiver the defense needs a bigger DB than if you have a 4.3 40, 5’11 190 guy. Having different builds at WR can help OC’s scheme up mismatches.

So while it probably is true to suggest that players can be efficient and productive regardless of 40 time, it’s also probably true to suggest that 40 times do matter to the extent that your offense needs a long speed receiver specifically.

If you’re the Jags with practically nobody, you take whoever can be most dominant. If you’re the titans with AJ Brown and Robert Woods, you’re looking for somebody who brings something different than those guys.

TLDR Version: faster WRs aren’t strictly better, just different which can be better in its own way.
 
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