Islam, is it a religion of peace or war?

[Wafflestomper]

I'm sorry I'm not sure I follow what you are saying?

I'm saying that God creating over the course of time is incoherent if God is outside of time...

 

[BigO95]

I'm saying that God creating over the course of time is incoherent if God is outside of time...

That may be so but I will just stay with what I believe the Bible plainly teaches.

 

[BigO95]

Belief. Faith.

Faith in what?

 

[Septic]

Penguins can swim dumbass.

I think it's kind of telling you're attacking that and not where the YEC believes baby dinosaurs were abord the arc, but whatevs.

You're right of course, we're all aware of the famous West Bank penguin species that migrates the 8,200 miles to Antarctica. They probably called the Arctic and gave their friends, the notorious Pakistan Polar Bear, heads up on the flood too.

Creationist To Walk 2 Penguins From Antarctica To The Middle East

Spoiler alert, it didn't work.

 

[Roustabout]

I think it's kind of telling you're attacking that and not where the YEC believes baby dinosaurs were abord the arc, but whatevs.

You're right of course, we're all aware of the famous West Bank penguin species that migrates the 8,200 miles to Antarctica. They probably called the Arctic and gave their friends, the notorious Pakistan Polar Bear, heads up on the flood.
Creationist To Walk 2 Penguins From Antarctica To The Middle East

Spoiler alert, it didn't work.

Attacking? As if you give two ***** about penguins.
bigO is just dancing to his DNA. Just like you. What the **** do you care how old he thinks the earth is?

 

[Septic]

Attacking? As if you give two ***** about penguins.
bigO is just dancing to his DNA. Just like you. What the **** do you care how old he thinks the earth is?

Your use of an ad hominem towards me was an unprovoked attack.

Looks like you could use a Snickers.

 

[Roustabout]

Your use of an ad hominem towards me was an unprovoked attack.

Looks like you could use a Snickers.

No, seriously, what does it matter?

If he wants to think the world was made by magic, rainbow farting unicorns, why does it matter?
Much less a penguin making it to an ark.
(My point was that penguins can swim and therefore would not need haven on the ark.)

 

[marcusluvsvols]

Absolutely. Show me a fossil of a vertebrate in the pre-cambrian strata and I will discount the entirety of evolutionary theory, outright.

Couple things...though i loathe this and have already learned my lesson about arguing scripture on VN...

Have you ever seen the circular reasoning that the whole BS "stratification " is based on? Where they date the limestone by the fossils in it, then date the same fossils by the layer of limestone it was found in? I have. In biology textbooks, in the same paragraph.

Ever seen the completely petrified trees, which are INVERTED and pass through supposedly 4, 5, 6 strata??? I have. How do you figure those trees stood, upside down, for 100s of millions of years as all the strata were slowly allegedly deposited around them? How can there be ANY fossil or tree that passes through multiple strata that supposedly are separated by many millions of years? Geologic stratification is absolute bullcrap when it comes to dating anything at all. Hydrologic sorting accomplishes the exact same layers in minutes...like in a flood that pretty much every religion and society on Earth says occurred in antiquity.

What about the inaccuracies of carbon decay dating? Where the exact same fossil can be "dated" a day or a week later and somehow come up 10, 20 , 50 million years later? How much do those types of dating take into account the changing atmosphere and planetary conditions over time? How could they ever do that when the only real clues we have about past conditions on Earth come from drilling ice cores in the arctic or random holes in the ground in places where we have absolutely no idea what events have taken place at those locations before recorded history?

I love science. LOVE SCIENCE. Read everything I can possibly get my hands on. I understand what science really is though. It is the best CURRENT understanding of the universe around us based on what limited information we can reliably observe, process, quantify, test, repeat, etc. When science abandons the scientific method, such as in abiogenesis, it isnt science at all. It is conjecture, fiction. Real science is observable, repeatable, and defined.
The brightest scientific minds on earth thought that the sun revolved around the Earth, which was flat...just a couple hundred years ago. Science is wonderful, founded in curiosity and the questions how? And why? I love it. It should always be viewed with skepticism though, by design.

Do you really not recognize the irony of suggesting it takes more faith to believe in evolution (of which there is mountains of physical evidence) than you suggesting that dinosaurs caught a ride on Noah's Arc along with every other species of insect and animal on the planet?

I believe in evolution. Micro and macro. The problem is when you lump abiogenesis in there with it...that all life came from primordial soup made from rain washing over rocks supposedly...which magically and ACCIDENTALLY sprung to life...even though under perfect conditions in a lab, with every possible amino acid ,proteins, etc we believe makes up just a simple single celled organism...when hit with every possible stimuli man can devise from electricity to radiation to pressure, heat, cold, you name it...scientists cannot INTENTIONALLY make happen what you believe happened entirely by chance with absolutely no oversight from anyone or God. Which there is exactly as much physical evidence for abiogenesis as there is for the flying spaghetti monster..but yes, you put FAITH into believing that even though logic, reason, and a complete lack of evidence suggest it has certainly never happened. I know faith is a dirty word to agnostics...but it is faith. To believe in that which cannot be seen, heard, demonstrated.

What does Ham say about getting the penguins from Antarctica to the middle east for the boat ride?

The Bible says Noah and his family put 2 of every KIND of animal on the boat. 2 birds, 2 dogs. 2 lizards, 2 cats, etc. It never says he put 2 of every single species on earth in the boat. It also says, "animals will bring forth (reproduce) according to their KIND.."

Horses make horses. Zebras and horses make foals too. They can do that bc they are the same KIND of animal. A wolf and a dog can make pups. They are the same KIND of animal. A lion and a tiger...same KIND. A Lion and a horse cannot. They are not the same KIND of animal. Makes sense right? God knew what he was talking about with different kinds of animals being able to reproduce with animals of the same kind. That's where variation in species came from. Macro evolution. A dachshund and a husky came from the same ancestor. It was a dog KIND of animal. There is zero evidence of a dog type mammal coming from a fish, or a cat, or a lizard. They are different kinds of animals.

Lot less animals in that big boat then right?

Again, I certainly dont pretend to have all the answers. I dont need to either. Every answer we think we get as humans brings about 100 more questions. Some of what yall apparently believe takes a great deal of faith though, just like Christianity. To believe a lifeless soup accidentally sprang to life and magically populated Earth is a whopper with zero evidence to back it up. This is usually where the BS statement " given enough time, the probability of anything becomes 1." Heard that lie a few times. Nah...even in a hundred billion years, an impossible task is still impossible. That's flawed logic. We have no reason to believe that given enough time 1+1 will = 4...or that any lifeless object will spring to life. Anyway...this thread has jumped the shark now. Lol...supposed to be about islam

 

[Roustabout]

Couple things...though i loathe this and have already learned my lesson about arguing scripture on VN...

Have you ever seen the circular reasoning that the whole BS "stratification " is based on? Where they date the limestone by the fossils in it, then date the same fossils by the layer of limestone it was found in? I have. In biology textbooks, in the same paragraph.

Ever seen the completely petrified trees, which are INVERTED and pass through supposedly 4, 5, 6 strata??? I have. How do you figure those trees stood, upside down, for 100s of millions of years as all the strata were slowly allegedly deposited around them? How can there be ANY fossil or tree that passes through multiple strata that supposedly are separated by many millions of years? Geologic stratification is absolute bullcrap when it comes to dating anything at all. Hydrologic sorting accomplishes the exact same layers in minutes...like in a flood that pretty much every religion and society on Earth says occurred in antiquity.

What about the inaccuracies of carbon decay dating? Where the exact same fossil can be "dated" a day or a week later and somehow come up 10, 20 , 50 million years later? How much do those types of dating take into account the changing atmosphere and planetary conditions over time? How could they ever do that when the only real clues we have about past conditions on Earth come from drilling ice cores in the arctic or random holes in the ground in places where we have absolutely no idea what events have taken place at those locations before recorded history?

I love science. LOVE SCIENCE. Read everything I can possibly get my hands on. I understand what science really is though. It is the best CURRENT understanding of the universe around us based on what limited information we can reliably observe, process, quantify, test, repeat, etc. When science abandons the scientific method, such as in abiogenesis, it isnt science at all. It is conjecture, fiction. Real science is observable, repeatable, and defined.
The brightest scientific minds on earth thought that the sun revolved around the Earth, which was flat...just a couple hundred years ago. Science is wonderful, founded in curiosity and the questions how? And why? I love it. It should always be viewed with skepticism though, by design.





The Bible says Noah and his family put 2 of every KIND of animal on the boat. 2 birds, 2 dogs. 2 lizards, 2 cats, etc. It never says he put 2 of every single species on earth in the boat. It also says, "animals will bring forth (reproduce) according to their KIND.."

Horses make horses. Zebras and horses make foals too. They can do that bc they are the same KIND of animal. A wolf and a dog can make pups. They are the same KIND of animal. A lion and a tiger...same KIND. A Lion and a horse cannot. They are not the same KIND of animal. Makes sense right? God knew what he was talking about with different kinds of animals being able to reproduce with animals of the same kind. That's where variation in species came from. Macro evolution. A dachshund and a husky came from the same ancestor. It was a dog KIND of animal. There is zero evidence of a dog type mammal coming from a fish, or a cat, or a lizard. They are different kinds of animals.

Lot less animals in that big boat then right?

Again, I certainly dont pretend to have all the answers. I dont need to either. Every answer we think we get as humans brings about 100 more questions. Some of what yall apparently believe takes a great deal of faith though, just like Christianity. To believe a lifeless soup accidentally sprang to life and magically populated Earth is a whopper with zero evidence to back it up. This is usually where the BS statement " given enough time, the probability of anything becomes 1." Heard that lie a few times. Nah...even in a hundred billion years, an impossible task is still impossible. That's flawed logic. We have no reason to believe that given enough time 1+1 will = 4...or that any lifeless object will spring to life. Anyway...this thread has jumped the shark now. Lol...supposed to be about islam

Not to mention that Pangea breaking up would have correlated to a flood event and not billions of years ago.

 

[Septic]

No, seriously, what does it matter?

If he wants to think the world was made by magic, rainbow farting unicorns, why does it matter?
Much less a penguin making it to an arc.
(My point was that penguins can swim and therefore would not need haven on the arc.)

I thought I was pretty clear about my fascination of the reconciliation of competing ideas. I was also respectful to him. Why are you inserting yourself into our conversation?

Also, not that I care because I'm a dog guy but my wife's cat can swim, would it qualify for haven on the arc?

 

[Septic]

Not to mention that Pangea breaking up would have correlated to a flood event and not billions of years ago.

Noah would have been about a 100 million years old when Pangea broke up. Though Answers in Genesis has Noah at about 500 years old when the Ark was built. It also states that the flood occurred in 2348 bc.

Math isn't checking out on that theory.

 

[Weezer]

Faith in what?

You should go back and reread my previous posts. The answer is there.

 

[Roustabout]

Noah would have been about a 100 million years old when Pangea broke up. Though Answers in Genesis has Noah at about 500 years old when the Ark was built. It also states that the flood occurred in 2348 bc.

Math isn't checking out on that theory.

I’m open to all possibilities. If one is postulating a 10k year old earth then Pangea didn’t happen 100 million years ago.

But again, who gives a ****? Your just one bag of DNA with a different opinion than another bag of DNA.

 

[marcusluvsvols]

Completely unrelated...

Read a couple articles lately that really got me thinking. We (milky way for scale) are in a HUGE empty spot in space. Dont remember the term, but it is an area that has 10% or less of the mass that general relativity (i.e. physics at large) state SHOULD be in this huge area. I mean HUGE...billions of light years across...which is honestly too big of numbers in miles for our brains to really be able to picture or form a frame of reference...and it is 90% more empty than it should be. Than the rest of the observable universe. I wonder why we are here in this undeniably special area...and what it means to be here. Also, it means the aliens that have been here must have come from our galaxy, or how could they ever get here if nothing can even come close to travelling the speed of light? ( if yall have watched those videos from the US NAVY pilots and listened to their accounts, and dont believe those objects are UFOs...I would love to know what you think they are. They accelerate and travel at speeds that nothing from earth can do, nor could any mammal handle the G forces from that acceleration. The navy even admitted they have no idea what they are..)

The other thing I have been reading about is how general relativity and quantum mechanics/physics have serious problems. Relativity, and the laws of physics as we know them, simply do not apply to particles or relationships at the atomic level. Bigtime dont work. I dont believe the whole dark matter/dark energy BS unless folks are just using it as a name for ",everything we cannot observe or detect" which is what it pretty much amounts to at this point...also there seem to be issues with "string theory" and "multiverse theory" also. It seems like there is a whole bunch of pseudoscientific BS theories out there, with no way to observe any part of them at all. Interesting to read...but fiction usually is. I admittedly have a hard time wrapping my head around some of the quantum stuff...especially the experiment they did where they observe basically a twin particle on earth kinda like a switch, and just BECAUSE they observe it here to be in the "on" position, both the particle here and the 1 in orbit turned themselves to the "off" position. Does anyone know what I am talking about?

 

[Roustabout]

I thought I was pretty clear about my fascination of the reconciliation of competing ideas. I was also respectful to him. Why are you inserting yourself into our conversation?

Also, not that I care because I'm a dog guy but my wife's cat can swim, would it qualify for haven on the arc?

Oh, I need your permission to enter into the exchange? Well, excuse me.

 

[Septic]

Oh, I need your permission to enter into the exchange? Well, excuse me.

I see you dodged my question about my wife's swimming cat. Big surprise.

Are you big095's gatekeeper? People can't ask him questions without your dander getting up?

 

[Roustabout]

I see you dodged my question about my wife's swimming cat. Big surprise.

Are you big095's gatekeeper? People can't ask him questions without your dander getting up?

You’re comparing the amphibious qualities of a cat and penguin?
And who has the issue with science here?

 

[Septic]

I’m open to all possibilities. If one is postulating a 10k year old earth then Pangea didn’t happen 100 million years ago.

But again, who gives a ****? Your just one bag of DNA with a different opinion than another bag of DNA.

YEC's believe creation occurred 4,000 years ago.

If you don't like folks expressing controversial or dissenting opinions in these political forums, may I suggest you try the Disney.com Frozen II message boards?

 

[Septic]

You’re comparing the amphibious qualities of a cat and penguin?
And who has the issue with science here?

Look, I hate cats too. But I'm not sure it's fair to judge a cats inability to swim when a trip on the Arc is at stake. Also, cats love to eat fish, fish live in the sea. Checkmate.

 

[Roustabout]

YEC's believe creation occurred 4,000 years ago.

If you don't like folks expressing controversial or dissenting opinions in these political forums, may I suggest you try the Disney.com Frozen II message boards?

FYI, there are various competing ideas in YEC. I’d say I know a wholw hell of a lot more about it than you. I don’t know if any YEC that believes creation occurred 4K years ago.

 

[Roustabout]

Look, I hate cats too. But I'm not sure it's fair to judge a cats inability to swim when a trip on the Arc is at stake. Also, cats love to eat fish, fish live in the sea. Checkmate.

Well, we agree on the hating cats part.

 

[NEO]

Orly?

Dinasaurs and homosapiens buried along side each other?

I'm surprised I haven't heard about that, seems like thats a point that would have been noisy.

I was speaking of different versions of human.

Graves.

Come on man.....

 

[Septic]

I was speaking of different versions of human.

Graves.

Come on man.....

That's not terribly surprising.

Nine Species of Human Once Walked Earth. Now There's Just One. Did We Kill The Rest?

 

[NEO]

That's not terribly surprising.

Nine Species of Human Once Walked Earth. Now There's Just One. Did We Kill The Rest?

I wonder if the same thing will be said about people with down syndrome one day.

How they were a different species.

 

[Weezer]

People who hate cats are horrible people.