Islam, is it a religion of peace or war?

#1,276
#1,276
marcusluvsvols said:
Completely unrelated...

Read a couple articles lately that really got me thinking. We (milky way for scale) are in a HUGE empty spot in space. Dont remember the term, but it is an area that has 10% or less of the mass that general relativity (i.e. physics at large) state SHOULD be in this huge area. I mean HUGE...billions of light years across...which is honestly too big of numbers in miles for our brains to really be able to picture or form a frame of reference...and it is 90% more empty than it should be. Than the rest of the observable universe. I wonder why we are here in this undeniably special area...and what it means to be here. Also, it means the aliens that have been here must have come from our galaxy, or how could they ever get here if nothing can even come close to travelling the speed of light? ( if yall have watched those videos from the US NAVY pilots and listened to their accounts, and dont believe those objects are UFOs...I would love to know what you think they are. They accelerate and travel at speeds that nothing from earth can do, nor could any mammal handle the G forces from that acceleration. The navy even admitted they have no idea what they are..)

The other thing I have been reading about is how general relativity and quantum mechanics/physics have serious problems. Relativity, and the laws of physics as we know them, simply do not apply to particles or relationships at the atomic level. Bigtime dont work. I dont believe the whole dark matter/dark energy BS unless folks are just using it as a name for ",everything we cannot observe or detect" which is what it pretty much amounts to at this point...also there seem to be issues with "string theory" and "multiverse theory" also. It seems like there is a whole bunch of pseudoscientific BS theories out there, with no way to observe any part of them at all. Interesting to read...but fiction usually is. I admittedly have a hard time wrapping my head around some of the quantum stuff...especially the experiment they did where they observe basically a twin particle on earth kinda like a switch, and just BECAUSE they observe it here to be in the "on" position, both the particle here and the 1 in orbit turned themselves to the "off" position. Does anyone know what I am talking about?
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I vaguely remember seeing something like this on the Science Channel years ago.
 
#1,277
#1,277
marcusluvsvols said:
Couple things...though i loathe this and have already learned my lesson about arguing scripture on VN...

Have you ever seen the circular reasoning that the whole BS "stratification " is based on? Where they date the limestone by the fossils in it, then date the same fossils by the layer of limestone it was found in? I have. In biology textbooks, in the same paragraph.

Ever seen the completely petrified trees, which are INVERTED and pass through supposedly 4, 5, 6 strata??? I have. How do you figure those trees stood, upside down, for 100s of millions of years as all the strata were slowly allegedly deposited around them? How can there be ANY fossil or tree that passes through multiple strata that supposedly are separated by many millions of years? Geologic stratification is absolute bullcrap when it comes to dating anything at all. Hydrologic sorting accomplishes the exact same layers in minutes...like in a flood that pretty much every religion and society on Earth says occurred in antiquity.

What about the inaccuracies of carbon decay dating? Where the exact same fossil can be "dated" a day or a week later and somehow come up 10, 20 , 50 million years later? How much do those types of dating take into account the changing atmosphere and planetary conditions over time? How could they ever do that when the only real clues we have about past conditions on Earth come from drilling ice cores in the arctic or random holes in the ground in places where we have absolutely no idea what events have taken place at those locations before recorded history?

I love science. LOVE SCIENCE. Read everything I can possibly get my hands on. I understand what science really is though. It is the best CURRENT understanding of the universe around us based on what limited information we can reliably observe, process, quantify, test, repeat, etc. When science abandons the scientific method, such as in abiogenesis, it isnt science at all. It is conjecture, fiction. Real science is observable, repeatable, and defined.
The brightest scientific minds on earth thought that the sun revolved around the Earth, which was flat...just a couple hundred years ago. Science is wonderful, founded in curiosity and the questions how? And why? I love it. It should always be viewed with skepticism though, by design.





The Bible says Noah and his family put 2 of every KIND of animal on the boat. 2 birds, 2 dogs. 2 lizards, 2 cats, etc. It never says he put 2 of every single species on earth in the boat. It also says, "animals will bring forth (reproduce) according to their KIND.."

Horses make horses. Zebras and horses make foals too. They can do that bc they are the same KIND of animal. A wolf and a dog can make pups. They are the same KIND of animal. A lion and a tiger...same KIND. A Lion and a horse cannot. They are not the same KIND of animal. Makes sense right? God knew what he was talking about with different kinds of animals being able to reproduce with animals of the same kind. That's where variation in species came from. Macro evolution. A dachshund and a husky came from the same ancestor. It was a dog KIND of animal. There is zero evidence of a dog type mammal coming from a fish, or a cat, or a lizard. They are different kinds of animals.

Lot less animals in that big boat then right?

Again, I certainly dont pretend to have all the answers. I dont need to either. Every answer we think we get as humans brings about 100 more questions. Some of what yall apparently believe takes a great deal of faith though, just like Christianity. To believe a lifeless soup accidentally sprang to life and magically populated Earth is a whopper with zero evidence to back it up. This is usually where the BS statement " given enough time, the probability of anything becomes 1." Heard that lie a few times. Nah...even in a hundred billion years, an impossible task is still impossible. That's flawed logic. We have no reason to believe that given enough time 1+1 will = 4...or that any lifeless object will spring to life. Anyway...this thread has jumped the shark now. Lol...supposed to be about islam
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There's no way I'm going to address every point you made here, but the carbon dating problems too often come from idiots and liars misusing radiometric dating intending to produce problematic results. This has been well documented. That's not to say that carbon dating or radiometric dating are perfect but they don't have the serious flaws that YECs believe they do.

As far as abiogenesis goes (I assume that's what you're referring to with your life from "lifeless soup" comment), I think they still have major hurdles to overcome before any specific hypothesis can be taken seriously. However, the problems with these types of hypotheses in no way warrant an appeal to magic as the best explanation. I've got no problem with anyone believing God did it but let's not sit here and try to assign probabilities to a supernatural being acting and then comparing those to life arising from natural causes. Naturalists could simply appeal to the hidden powers of nature--as theists do with God--and be in no worse shape than theists are. I think we can all at least agree that the natural world exists but theists have to go one step further and posit a supernatural being who created it all.
 
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#1,281
#1,281
Roustabout said:
What? You have faith in faith?
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I have faith in what I believe. I never said I thought the Bible was completely wrong. I specifically said that I didn't think it was completely wrong. That doesn't change that I have serious questions about how it was put together, who put it together, what books were included, what books were excluded, who authored certain parts, and mostly, how should it be interpreted in today's world.
 
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#1,282
#1,282
Weezer said:
I have faith in what I believe. I never said I thought the Bible was completely wrong. I specifically said that I didn't think it was completely wrong. That doesn't change that I have serious questions about how it was put together, who put it together, what books were included, what books were excluded, who authored certain parts, and mostly, how should it be interpreted in today's world.
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How do you know what to keep and what to discard? My contention is we either have Gods word to man or we don't have anything.
Why would God be careless with such an important thing as his word to man if we don't have a trustworthy Bible?
 
#1,283
#1,283
marcusluvsvols said:
The other thing I have been reading about is how general relativity and quantum mechanics/physics have serious problems. Relativity, and the laws of physics as we know them, simply do not apply to particles or relationships at the atomic level. Bigtime dont work.
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Quantum mechanics doesn't work? QM made it possible for us to develop MRIs, computers, cell phones, lasers and atomic clocks. Yeah, it's totally not working!
 
#1,284
#1,284
BigO95 said:
How do you know what to keep and what to discard? My contention is we either have Gods word to man or we don't have anything.
Why would God be careless with such an important thing as his word to man if we don't have a trustworthy Bible?
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I thought you believed God spoke to you? Now you seem to be asserting that God only speaks to man through the Bible. If God speaks to you, I'd say you have everything.

How did the bishops who put the Bible together under direction from Constantine decide what to keep and discard? And asking why God does anything is pointless. Why does God allow babies to die? Why does God allow intolerable cruelty to exist? If you believe in an omnipotent God, then you should know the questions of why are beyond our comprehension.
 
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#1,286
#1,286
BigO95 said:
How do you know what to keep and what to discard? My contention is we either have Gods word to man or we don't have anything.
Why would God be careless with such an important thing as his word to man if we don't have a trustworthy Bible?
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God's not careless. Man's writing, translation and interpretation of the scriptures could certainly be flawed. Redaction has caused issues, too.
 
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#1,289
#1,289
Purple Tiger said:
God's not careless. Man's writing, translation and interpretation of the scriptures could certainly be flawed. Redaction has caused issues, too.
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The bible was written, edited, translated and compiled by men so the chances of it NOT being 100% the word of God is at least in the high 90s.
 
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#1,290
#1,290
Weezer said:
I have faith in what I believe. I never said I thought the Bible was completely wrong. I specifically said that I didn't think it was completely wrong. That doesn't change that I have serious questions about how it was put together, who put it together, what books were included, what books were excluded, who authored certain parts, and mostly, how should it be interpreted in today's world.
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Well duh. Everyone has faith in what they believe. That’s the definition of faith.
My issue isn’t with anything you believe. My issue is how you are using the term “faith.” You’re essentially saying I believe what I believe because I believe it.
 
#1,291
#1,291
Weezer said:
I thought you believed God spoke to you? Now you seem to be asserting that God only speaks to man through the Bible. If God speaks to you, I'd say you have everything.

How did the bishops who put the Bible together under direction from Constantine decide what to keep and discard? And asking why God does anything is pointless. Why does God allow babies to die? Why does God allow intolerable cruelty to exist? If you believe in an omnipotent God, then you should know the questions of why are beyond our comprehension.
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(I thought you believed God spoke to you? Now you seem to be asserting that God only speaks to man through the Bible. If God speaks to you, I'd say you have everything.)

If what I think God speaks to me, if it's contrary to the scriptures then it turns out it was not God at all. all born-again believers have the spirit of God dwelling on the inside. the same Holy Spirit is ultimately the author of The Bible, and is in fact the Spirit of Christ.
Our hearts are desperately wicked and cannot be trusted. Living by faith is in no way living by a feeling but living by the word of God. I'm very thankful for the feelings that accompany salvation but I will not be so foolish to trust them above the Bible.
 
#1,292
#1,292
BigO95 said:
(I thought you believed God spoke to you? Now you seem to be asserting that God only speaks to man through the Bible. If God speaks to you, I'd say you have everything.)

If what I think God speaks to me, if it's contrary to the scriptures then it turns out it was not God at all. all born-again believers have the spirit of God dwelling on the inside. the same Holy Spirit is ultimately the author of The Bible, and is in fact the Spirit of Christ.
Our hearts are desperately wicked and cannot be trusted. Living by faith is in no way living by a feeling but living by the word of God. I'm very thankful for the feelings that accompany salvation but I will not be so foolish to trust them above the Bible.
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Then our beliefs are different. I trust what God speaks to my heart.
 
#1,294
#1,294
Roustabout said:
Well duh. Everyone has faith in what they believe. That’s the definition of faith.
My issue isn’t with anything you believe. My issue is how you are using the term “faith.” You’re essentially saying I believe what I believe because I believe it.
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Isn't that what faith is? Believing in something especially when you can't prove it? I believe what I believe because it feels right to me.
 
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#1,295
#1,295
Weezer, may I add that there are many voices out there, please be careful who you listen to. The Devil has a voice to.
 
#1,296
#1,296
Weezer said:
Isn't that what faith is? Believing in something especially when you can't prove it? I believe what I believe because it feels right to me.
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No, that isn’t what faith is. For example, I believe (have faith in) things even though they may not feel right.

Faith is simply confidence that something is true. Or, confidence in a thing or person. I have faith my wife will take care of me when I’m sick. I can’t specifically prove that, but im confident it’s true.

Just because someone can’t prove something doesn’t mean there isn’t evidence or good reason to believe it’s true.

How did you come to your conclusions about the Bible?
 
#1,298
#1,298
Roustabout said:
No, that isn’t what faith is. For example, I believe (have faith in) things even though they may not feel right.

Faith is simply confidence that something is true. Or, confidence in a thing or person. I have faith my wife will take care of me when I’m sick. I can’t specifically prove that, but im confident it’s true.

Just because someone can’t prove something doesn’t mean there isn’t evidence or good reason to believe it’s true.

How did you come to your conclusions about the Bible?
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From all the hate people claim is justified by the Bible.

You and I probably need to agree to disagree when it comes to faith.
 
#1,299
#1,299
Roustabout said:
If you think that’s science, we have bigger issues.
Those dangerous humans .
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Stop whining, it's an educational article with much of it being based on equal parts speculation and scientific discovery.
 
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