Israel vs Palestinians

#25,702
#25,702
NashVol11 said:
“Desperate” would be being so far up Israel’s ass that you make weird accusations about Jewish children not mattering, then see Israel blow up an ambulance with a 6-year-old in it and say they’re blameless
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Once again, not "blameless." Israel should do everything in their power to reduce civilian casualties. They are far from perfect, but they do an admirable job.

Hamas and Hezbollah make absolutely no attempt at reducing civilian casualties, and typically try to maximize them.

There is no moral equivalency here. There are good guys and bad guys in this conflict. The good guys should always try to be better. The bad guys should stop being bad.
 
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#25,704
#25,704
NashVol11 said:
“Desperate” would be being so far up Israel’s ass that you make weird accusations about Jewish children not mattering, then see Israel blow up an ambulance with a 6-year-old in it and say they’re blameless
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Do you think Israel deliberately said you know what, we are going to target that ambulance over there because it has a 6 year old in it?

Do you think Hamas said you know what, we think Israel should be wiped off the face of the planet, so we are going to launch a bunch of rockets with zero regard for where they land?

You really believe these are the same and equally bad?
 
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#25,706
#25,706
bamawriter said:
Once again, not "blameless." Israel should do everything in their power to reduce civilian casualties. They are far from perfect, but they do an admirable job.

Hamas and Hezbollah make absolutely no attempt at reducing civilian casualties, and typically try to maximize them.

There is no moral equivalency here. There are good guys and bad guys in this conflict. The good guys should always try to be better. The bad guys should stop being bad.
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Not sure what I’m saying requires “moral equivalence” of Israel and Hezbollah at large. You made a weird accusation about deaths of children not mattering to me unless I condemn the ones killing them (again), I pointed out that you haven’t condemned things like this and you’ve continued doubling down on not condemning it
Rajab and her family were fleeing Gaza City when their vehicle was shelled, killing her uncle, aunt and three cousins, except for Rajab and another cousin who contacted the Palestine Red Crescent Society (PRCS) to ask for help while noting that they were being attacked by an Israeli tank. The cousin was later also killed and Rajab was left stranded in the vehicle for hours on the phone, as paramedics from PRCS attempted to rescue her. Both Rajab and the paramedics were later also found killed on 10 February after an Israeli withdrawal.

Israel claimed that there weren't any troops present in the neighborhood and denied carrying out the attack. However, this was refuted by investigations relying on satellite imagery and visual evidence, which concluded that a number of Israeli tanks were indeed present and one had likely fired 335 rounds on the car that Rajab and her family had been in, with tank operators being able to see that the car had civilians including children in it. The Forensic Architecture investigation also concluded that an Israeli tank had also likely attacked the ambulance that came for Rajab.
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#25,708
#25,708
rjd970 said:
Do you think Israel deliberately said you know what, we are going to target that ambulance over there because it has a 6 year old in it?
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Because it had Palestinians in it and seeing a child didn’t matter to them, yes. Not just me

However, this was refuted by investigations relying on satellite imagery and visual evidence, which concluded that a number of Israeli tanks were indeed present and one had likely fired 335 rounds on the car that Rajab and her family had been in, with tank operators being able to see that the car had civilians including children in it.
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#25,714
#25,714
NashVol11 said:
Not sure what I’m saying requires “moral equivalence” of Israel and Hezbollah at large. You made a weird accusation about deaths of children not mattering to me unless I condemn the ones killing them (again), I pointed out that you haven’t condemned things like this and you’ve continued doubling down on not condemning it
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I never said that you or anyone else should condemn both sides. I clearly do not believe that. I pointed out that you reserve your condemnation for Israel until the instances where you're called out for doing so.
 
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#25,715
#25,715
rjd970 said:
I’m not even going to question the source and just ask why you ignored the second part of my post?
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Because I haven’t said **** about the parties being “equally bad,” that’s just the deflection Bamawriter is hiding behind. Israel has done plenty of things worth condemning whether you think they’re morally superior as a whole or not
 
#25,716
#25,716
bamawriter said:
I never said that you or anyone else should condemn both sides. I clearly do not believe that. I pointed out that you reserve your condemnation for Israel until the instances where you're called out for doing so.
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As opposed to your approach of being a cheerleader for Israel who can’t condemn them or hold them accountable for one single thing they do, I’ll live. I asked if you condemn Hind Rajab’s murder specifically and you STILL can’t say yes
 
#25,717
#25,717
NashVol11 said:
Because I haven’t said **** about the parties being “equally bad,” that’s just the deflection Bamawriter is hiding behind. Israel has done plenty of things worth condemning whether you think they’re morally superior as a whole or not
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Taking this at face value, if you don't believe that the sides are "equally bad," then what should one make of the fact that your posting history is far more critical of Israel? If they are not "equally bad," an uninformed reader would have a tough time concluding that you do not think that Israel is worse.
 
#25,719
#25,719
NashVol11 said:
Because I haven’t said **** about the parties being “equally bad,” that’s just the deflection Bamawriter is hiding behind. Israel has done plenty of things worth condemning whether you think they’re morally superior as a whole or not
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An acknowledgement that Hamas is objectively worse would be a start. And maybe acknowledging that if Israel wanted to kill every 6-year old in Palestine they could but the use of human shields by Hamas unnecessarily makes these engagements difficult.
 
#25,720
#25,720
NashVol11 said:
As opposed to your approach of being a cheerleader for Israel who can’t condemn them or hold them accountable for one single thing they do, I’ll live. I asked if you condemn Hind Rajab’s murder specifically and you STILL can’t say yes
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Any incident of intentionally (or with depraved indifference) killing civilians is never acceptable under any circumstances. The perpetrators should face charges.

That being said, this is not the MO of the IDF. While not perfect, they take pains to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas and Hezbolloah's MO is to kill any Israeli. Civilians or military makes absolutely no difference.
 
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#25,721
#25,721
NashVol11 said:
Because I haven’t said **** about the parties being “equally bad,” that’s just the deflection Bamawriter is hiding behind. Israel has done plenty of things worth condemning whether you think they’re morally superior as a whole or not
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You’ve also not said **** about how many kids were involved here.

Do you intend on answering the question? Or are you just proclaiming the IDF killed kids in this attack without any actual evidence
 
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#25,723
#25,723
Vol8188 said:
You’ve also not said **** about how many kids were involved here.

Do you intend on answering the question? Or are you just proclaiming the IDF killed kids in this attack without any actual evidence
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This incident happened in a combat zone after evacuation orders had been issued. Apparently the car that poor girl and her family were in was blocked by wreckage in the road.
You have to ignore the evacuation order, and assume the wreckage in the road was premeditated, to call this an IDF murder rather than collateral damage.
Definitely investigate the tank crew though. If they knowingly killed civilians they should be held accountable.

Have the claims that the Gaza Health Ministry (Hamas) negotiated safe passage for the PRCS ever been proven? The fact that a recording of the girls call to the PRCS has been released, but no recording of Hamas negotiating safe passage for the ambulance leaves me cynical.
 
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