Israel vs Palestinians

#25,778
#25,778
Vol8188 said:
It’s anti capitalist at a minimum. Why wouldn’t we sell arms to Israel?

The implication of such a move is “Israel is doing something wrong”. So yes, it would appear to be anti Israel move
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Except I don't think we should be the world's arms dealer. This isn't just for Israel it's for everyone. For example, I don't think we should arm the Saudis to just commit atrocities in Yemen

We cause more death worldwide than any other country in the world. Let's take a time out
 
#25,779
#25,779
utvolpj said:
Except I don't think we should be the world's arms dealer. This isn't just for Israel it's for everyone. I don't think we should arm the Saudis to just commit atrocities in Yemen

We cause more death worldwide than any other country in the world
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Prohibiting arms sales would simply drive up costs for us - the bill due just gets bigger.

That doesn’t sound like you.
 
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#25,781
#25,781
utvolpj said:
Except I don't think we should be the world's arms dealer. This isn't just for Israel it's for everyone. For example, I don't think we should arm the Saudis to just commit atrocities in Yemen

We cause more death worldwide than any other country in the world. Let's take a time out
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Nations should export things. I’m open to placing restrictions on specific countries, but it’s because I’m “anti” each of those countries.
 
#25,782
#25,782
85SugarVol said:
Prohibiting arms sales would simply drive up costs for us - the bill due just gets bigger.

That doesn’t sound like you.
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Drive up what costs? The cost to make war around the world? More costly to outfit and maintain 800 military bases around the world? The bill only goes up if you buy the same amount or more. Buy less, save money
 
#25,783
#25,783
Vol8188 said:
Nations should export things. I’m open to placing restrictions on specific countries, but it’s because I’m “anti” each of those countries.
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I would rather not be known as the leading exporter of death to innocents. Just my preference as an American if we have to be labeled
 
#25,784
#25,784
utvolpj said:
Drive up what costs? The cost to make war around the world? More costly to outfit and maintain 800 military bases around the world? The bill only goes up if you buy the same amount or more. Buy less, save money
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Our procurement cost.

The price we pay to Lockheed is reduced, due to their ability to make external sales to others.

Cut those sales off to Lockheed - our price goes up.
 
#25,785
#25,785
bamawriter said:
Fair enough. With that in mind, what do you think should be the realistic outcome of this conflict? And I don't mean "women and children should stop being killed." That's a platitude. We all agree on that.
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The should be isn't attainable given Israel's recent and current slaughter of women, children and other noncombatants, making Gaza uninabitable, and aggressions in the West Bank. It's too bad they chose to use the attacks as a pretext to further displace Palestinians and grab more land instead of addressing the root causes of the attacks.
The should have been would be targeting Hamas' military leadership and that civilian leadership complicit in the October 7 attacks, working in a multinational effort to replace Hamas as Gaza's de jure rulers with a more representative and transparent form of government, and addressing those root causes in a just manner.
 
#25,786
#25,786
85SugarVol said:
Our procurement cost.

The price we pay to Lockheed is reduced, due to their ability to make external sales to others.

Cut those sales off to Lockheed - our price goes up.
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Again, only if we feel the need to load up on their products. Do we need to put can we cut way back, eliminate some waste and actually figure out what is necessary

How do so these other countries get away with spending so much less on defense? Maybe we should figure that out
 
#25,789
#25,789
Vol8188 said:
Lmfao what happened to your claim that this wasn’t based in anti Israeli sentiment? That seems to have evaporated fast
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I never singled out Israel. In fact I listed an even worse operation carried out in a cost saving (right 85?) genocide against Yemen
 
#25,791
#25,791
utvolpj said:
Again, only if we feel the need to load up on their products. Do we need to put can we cut way back, eliminate some waste and actually figure out what is necessary

How do so these other countries get away with spending so much less on defense? Maybe we should figure that out
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It would be great if we cut back on bloated defense spending - you and I both know that’s not happening.

So if we accept that our purchases remain constant (at best), and external sales are prohibited - our per unit procurement cost only goes up.
 
#25,793
#25,793
utvolpj said:
Again, only if we feel the need to load up on their products. Do we need to put can we cut way back, eliminate some waste and actually figure out what is necessary

How do so these other countries get away with spending so much less on defense? Maybe we should figure that out
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Which country spending less are you wanting to imitate?
 
#25,794
#25,794
KB5252 said:
I'm aware of bad faith agreements and actions from both sides going back decades.

Netanyahu is a flash in the pan. Much like our American system agreements and living up to them in good faith can be challenging because we turn over leadership so often......a blessing and a curse.

On the Palestinian side it's equally difficult, not everyone is on board, multiple factions willing to drag the other for power and influence etc.

Agree completely with the MIC, but that will never happen until we blow the current status quo up, even if we did blow it up I think they would gladly bulldoze us....... Basically we are screwed.
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Flash in the pan? He's served many terms since the mid-90s and had been involved in policy since the 80s.
 
#25,796
#25,796
KB5252 said:
I'm aware of bad faith agreements and actions from both sides going back decades.

Netanyahu is a flash in the pan. Much like our American system agreements and living up to them in good faith can be challenging because we turn over leadership so often......a blessing and a curse.

On the Palestinian side it's equally difficult, not everyone is on board, multiple factions willing to drag the other for power and influence etc.

Agree completely with the MIC, but that will never happen until we blow the current status quo up, even if we did blow it up I think they would gladly bulldoze us....... Basically we are screwed.
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The longest serving Prime Minister in Israel's history by a wide margin is hardly a flash in the pan though.
 
#25,797
#25,797
85SugarVol said:
It would be great if we cut back on bloated defense spending - you and I both know that’s not happening.

So if we accept that our purchases remain constant (at best), and external sales are prohibited - our per unit procurement cost only goes up.
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But my stance and my stated goals don't accept that. It's why I don't support these bought and paid for politicians. I don't want my kids to be sacrificed to the MIC just because I had to accept they couldn't dare to cut spending
 
#25,799
#25,799
EasternVol said:
The longest serving Prime Minister in Israel's history by a wide margin is hardly a flash in the pan though.
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I worded it badly, but as I said on prior response he'll be gone soon and a new majority with new priorities will be elected just as it has gone before.
 
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#25,800
#25,800
utvolpj said:
Let's start with any. The outright waste in our system could fund the budget of most countries combined. But you have to spend money to save money right?
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The bloat and waste in our system is outrageous.

We need serious firewalls between the Military & Politicians.
We need flag officers banned from joining defense contractors.
We need competition for domestic producers.

There are many ways to save money - cutting off sales isn’t a very good one.

How do you feel about sourcing naval capital assets from Japan & South Korea?
They can build boats for 1/3 the cost that we do.
 
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