Israel vs Palestinians

[utvolpj]

And he'll be gone soon and a new majority with new priorities will be elected.

Something they could have said about him 40yrs ago. They've gone so long without real change that there's no reason to believe it will happen once he's gone

 

[utvolpj]

How do you feel about sourcing naval capital assets from Japan & South Korea?
They can build boats for 1/3 the cost that we do.

So how are we going to pay more with less investment than we currently have? If we're already paying 3x then maybe we first need to figure out why

 

[KB5252]

Something they could have said about him 40yrs ago. They've gone so long without real change that there's no reason to believe it will happen once he's gone

But my point is there have been better to good faith attempts made. Both sides have shown themselves exceedingly adept at breaking/bending agreements.

And some administrations more than others.

 

[85SugarVol]

So how are we going to pay more with less investment than we currently have? If we're already paying 3x then maybe we first need to figure out why

What?

I’m saying buy Japanese destroyers at $1B per boat
- vs -
Buying from General Dynamics for $3B per boat.

That would save money. Lots of it.

I don’t know what you’re trying to say.

 

[85SugarVol]

So how are we going to pay more with less investment than we currently have? If we're already paying 3x then maybe we first need to figure out why

The “why” is the portion of my post you cut off.

Incestuous relationships between flag officers, defense contractors, and politicians.

And no competition or expectations for our domestic producers.

 

[utvolpj]

What?

I’m saying buy Japanese destroyers at $1B per boat
- vs -
Buying from General Dynamics for $3B per boat.

That would save money. Lots of it.

I don’t know what you’re trying to say.

We have the largest investment in these products yet still cost 3x. What would save money is to figure out why and do it here. You say cutting will raise costs but that's obviously not the case with these boats

 

[85SugarVol]

We have the largest investment in these products yet still cost 3x. What would save money is to figure out why and do it here. You say cutting will raise costs but that's obviously not the case with these boats

I’ve stated what we need to do to build these for less here. Competition being a key factor.

We don’t sell these platforms externally to others - we are the sole purchaser.

Cutting off external sales of Jets, Tanks, Bombs, etc would raise our per unit cost on those items.

 

[OrangeTsar]

they learned how to do that from Liz Warren

Boom. Drop that Mike StarRaider. You win the internet today

 

[Godfatha]

Or don't live where they want to live.

Where do you propose Israelis live

 

[Orangeburst]

The Pentagon would save a ton with muti year procurement authorizations, so USC bears alot of responsibility imo.

 

[OrangeTsar]

Everyone here has condemned Hamas killing children and civilians generally, I condemn Hezbollah killing children and civilians too. So what are my views on the subject

The only thing so many people seem to be unwilling to admit is that condemnation of Hamas and Hezbollah is functionally meaningless if one does not admit the logical follow on and agree that Israel has the right to take warlike actions to thwart Hamas and Hezbollah and that means that (like in every war) some innocent civilians will perish in that war.
It does no good to call Hamas and Hezbollah “bad” while forbidding Israel to do anything about the badness. And that is what they are doing under the wars of war and are actually going out of their way to minimize civilian casualties when their opponents break the rules of war by placing themselves in civilian dwellings and institutions.

 

[OrangeTsar]

Where do you propose Israelis live

Thankfully we can actually read the title deed to get the answer that question Direct from the ultimate Landlord


But so many people seem content to either call God a liar or else to not believe Bible is an accurate record.

 

[NashVol11]

The only thing so many people seem to be unwilling to admit is that condemnation of Hamas and Hezbollah is functionally meaningless if one does not admit the logical follow on and agree that Israel has the right to take warlike actions to thwart Hamas and Hezbollah and that means that (like in every war) some innocent civilians will perish in that war.
It does no good to call Hamas and Hezbollah “bad” while forbidding Israel to do anything about the badness. And that is what they are doing under the wars of war and are actually going out of their way to minimize civilian casualties when their opponents break the rules of war by placing themselves in civilian dwellings and institutions.

There is a wide gulf between “not being able to do anything” and killing 30K+ civilians

 

[OrangeTsar]

There is a wide gulf between “not being able to do anything” and killing 30K+ civilians

What WOULD be an acceptable number in your estimation?
And how would you conduct the war differently if you were put in charge tomorrow?

 

[swampfoxfan]

Nash and Orange Tzar make valid points. I was stationed in Bahrain when the Sabra/shatila massacres occurred, 3,000 innocent palestenian women and children were murdered by Israeli backed Lebanese fighters. Being American in the middle of the Arab world was a tense place to be.

I spoke with the Bahrain Husbanding agent contracted to supply food and water to US ships operating in the Arabian gulf. His simple response was the Israelies were paying back for and incident that occurred 1,500 years ago, so it was all even.

With attitudes such as his, shared by Muslims and Jews alike, don't look for any peace ever in the mideast world.

 

[Vol8188]

There is a wide gulf between “not being able to do anything” and killing 30K+ civilians

And you personally object to every single point along that “wide gulf”. To the point were you even object to targeting the specific pagers of terrorists

 

[norrislakevol]

Nash and Orange Tzar make valid points. I was stationed in Bahrain when the Sabra/shatila massacres occurred, 3,000 innocent palestenian women and children were murdered by Israeli backed Lebanese fighters. Being American in the middle of the Arab world was a tense place to be.

I spoke with the Bahrain Husbanding agent contracted to supply food and water to US ships operating in the Arabian gulf. His simple response was the Israelies were paying back for and incident that occurred 1,500 years ago, so it was all even.

With attitudes such as his, shared by Muslims and Jews alike, don't look for any peace ever in the mideast world.

Agree with you on this. They have always fought, and they will continue to fight. This goes back thousands of years.

 

[85SugarVol]

Where do you propose Israelis live

Not in PALESTINE!!!!!!!

 

[StarRaider]

interestin timin... fafo or not fafo? dats da q

 

[EasternVol]

Where do you propose Israelis live

I propose they don't steal other people's land to make a place to live.

 

[Ritzwatch]

I propose they don't steal other people's land to make a place to live.

Well that is an easy enough standard in land that has been lived in for thousands of years.

 

[EasternVol]

The only thing so many people seem to be unwilling to admit is that condemnation of Hamas and Hezbollah is functionally meaningless if one does not admit the logical follow on and agree that Israel has the right to take warlike actions to thwart Hamas and Hezbollah and that means that (like in every war) some innocent civilians will perish in that war.
It does no good to call Hamas and Hezbollah “bad” while forbidding Israel to do anything about the badness. And that is what they are doing under the wars of war and are actually going out of their way to minimize civilian casualties when their opponents break the rules of war by placing themselves in civilian dwellings and institutions.

If Israel can take warlike action to thwart Hamas and Hezbollah if those two are out of line, can they take warlike action to thwart Israel if Israel's out of line?

 

[Orangeslice13]

Well that is an easy enough standard in land that has been lived in for thousands of years.

It’s interesting that people say silly **** like that, while talking about land that has been in dispute 1000’s of years, and at the same time sitting on land stolen from native peoples less than 150 years ago. Land stolen by invaders with no history or claim to the land.
Maybe the European colonizers should STFU and mind their own business.

 

[EasternVol]

It’s interesting that people say silly **** like that, while talking about land that has been in dispute 1000’s of years, and at the same time sitting on land stolen from native peoples less than 150 years ago. Land stolen by invaders with no history or claim to the land.
Maybe the European colonizers should STFU and mind their own business.

You mean the European colonizers in Israel?
As for Amercans, we've abetted it and paid for it so it is our business.

 

[KB5252]

Agree with you on this. They have always fought, and they will continue to fight. This goes back thousands of years

I propose they don't steal other people's land to make a place to live.

It's like Hatfield's and McCoy's at the state level. The grudges go back centuries.


Not trying to be a smartarse but it depends on how you define steal. Israel has surely stolen land but a significant portion of the land they claim stolen was acquired through legitimate means. Unless of course you mean the state of Israel itself.....

While I agree the establishment of Israel was at best problematic they have defended, established and expanded their state mostly after being attacked and taking land strategic to those attacks for defense.