Israel vs Palestinians

[EasternVol]

Sounds good........ They were forcefully removed from their land, why not restore their title?

Because they effectively abandoned the land with no claim for eons, same as the Europeans who want to live there.

 

[EasternVol]

Not sure what/where that is.

I was just asking because I studied Native cultures, mythologies and history..... Back to the Mississippian culture

Sorry, not trying to be cryptc. Upper East Tennessee.
Did you cover anything on the burial mounds and caves in SWVa?

 

[bamawriter]

Where do you get that?

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/women-and-land-in-the-muslim-world-un-habitat-report-excerpts/

 

[EasternVol]

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/women-and-land-in-the-muslim-world-un-habitat-report-excerpts/

Ah, so they can own real estate.

 

[bamawriter]

Ah, so they can own real estate.

In the same way that I can go to Mars, sure.

 

[Orangeslice13]

In the same way that I can go to Mars, sure.

Lol

 

[KB5252]

Because they effectively abandoned the land with no claim for eons, same as the Europeans who want to live there.

The Jews didn't abandon it. 100,000 of them were forcefully removed and enslaved, most of the rest fled persecution following the revolts.

The "Europeans" as you call them are only the product of people of Jewish faith that have intermarried with Europeans........ Or the result of rape and forced bondage to Europeans. They have fairer skin but genetic link to Israel.

The "European" argument is weak as off brand Kool aid

 

[KB5252]

Sorry, not trying to be cryptc. Upper East Tennessee.
Did you cover anything on the burial mounds and caves in SWVa?

Mounds are tricky, the Mississippian made many, large complexes, usually very close to rivers....... But so did the generations that came much later.

The Cherokee called themselves the "original people" and people with different speech.

They Mississippian were inhabitants of the Ohio, Tennessee, Mississippi valleys. From what I understand the Cherokee were thought to have descended the cave dwellers and coastal tribes that were smaller and more isolated in the great forests and mountains of the east coast.

Edit: I completely avoided your question with the response above. But that area was prime Cherokee real estate, ask the way down to Northern GA and Alabama.

Just west in Kentucky there were other tribes mainly Chickasaw and Shawnee but other tribes did as well.

What's funny is the area from around Crossville to the Tennessee River near Paris landing was mostly hunting land which all the tribes contested and fight over. Middle Tennessee was all considered prime hunting and gathering land.

 

[EasternVol]

In the same way that I can go to Mars, sure.

Where does that article say women can't? I read it as they're overcoming some recent discrimination but are exercising their rights (note they have the right).

 

[EasternVol]

The Jews didn't abandon it. 100,000 of them were forcefully removed and enslaved, most of the rest fled persecution following the revolts.

The "Europeans" as you call them are only the product of people of Jewish faith that have intermarried with Europeans........ Or the result of rape and forced bondage to Europeans. They have fairer skin but genetic link to Israel.

The "European" argument is weak as off brand Kool aid

Did they try to move back and claim it in the interim? If not, it's abandonment.

 

[bamawriter]

Where does that article say women can't? I read it as they're overcoming some recent discrimination but are exercising their rights (note they have the right).

Again, I have the right to go to Mars. But if I don't have the money (few Palestinian women work and, of that few, most work in low paying industries) or have the support and assistance of those who could help me (social norms and the courts are stacked against women in the territories), my right to go to Mars is pretty useless.

Less than 8% of Palestinian women own homes. A significantly larger percentage of Arab women own property in Israel than do their Palenstinian counterparts (though, of course, Israel is terrible, so I bet those homes have outdated light fixtures and ugly wallpaper). Their "rights" are only as useful as their ability to exercise them.

 

[KB5252]

Did they try to move back and claim it in the interim? If not, it's abandonment.

I'm sure their extended family that was there told them about their treatment. Be persecuted by people that sneer and talk about you behind your back.....or be persecuted by the Palestinians who had license to hurt and kill you.

Then the Holocaust in Europe happened and that kind of changed the calculus for Jews everywhere.

It wasn't abandoned they were dispersed purposefully by the Romans and the rest that was left by the Palestinians later. The ones that could flee did. The ones that couldn't or wouldn't leave stayed and were abused.

It's not nearly as simple as your stating. It would be like me forcing you out of your home at gunpoint and taking you elsewhere stripping you of rights to own property, then allow someone else to move into your home......... Do you have a legitimate claim to your home?

 

[KB5252]

When I consider a conflict like this I try to think of my own status. I try to apply like scenarios and consider my reactions and emotions.

The Palestinian/ Israeli situation is a very difficult one. I have to consider both sides of an equation and the near impossible factors to consider.

The Israeli psyche has to be considered. Having your homes stolen, taken from you twice! Being persecuted and dispersed by Romans, forced into slavery.

Then persecuted and hunted later in Europe, gassed or shot in the back in front of open pits, go to a camp if you were lucky and into forced labor until you were to weak or sick to work..... Then gassed.

Those who did remain treated as second class citizens, persecuted by those who became Palestinians who allied themselves with Rome during the rebellion.

The Palestinians on the other hand were on the losing side of WWII, they had allied themselves with Nazi Germany, in 41 there were even plans to exterminate Jews in what they called Palestine. But the war wasn't going well and Hitler had his hands full elsewhere to take this task on..... Thank goodness.

So the Palestinian people were on the unfortunate side of a decision to restore Israel a few years after the war. They were displaced and forced into smaller areas. Revolts and uprisings, civil unrest.

Then multiple uprisings against Israel with help from allies which them forced Palestinians into smaller areas, their allies losing land to Israel as well.

Then Palestinians have been used as political footballs by Israel, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria and Iran.

Land bought away from them, and outright taken.

Various attempts at peace have been made, some legitimate, some just window dressing. Both sides breaking promises and acting in bad faith at times during the years. Both sides killing each other.

If you take Israel away from Israelis you right a wrong for one group and wrong another. If you keep the status quo you right a wrong for one group and wrong another.

This conflict is impossible, neither side will budge, both say it's to the death. What do you do?

 

[norrislakevol]

Did they try to move back and claim it in the interim? If not, it's abandonment.

Interesting, since many Jews have lived there for thousands of years, even before WWII......but whatever.

 

[jp1]

The Jews didn't abandon it. 100,000 of them were forcefully removed and enslaved, most of the rest fled persecution following the revolts.

The "Europeans" as you call them are only the product of people of Jewish faith that have intermarried with Europeans........ Or the result of rape and forced bondage to Europeans. They have fairer skin but genetic link to Israel.

The "European" argument is weak as off brand Kool aid

Every argument he trots out there is weak.

 

[EasternVol]

Again, I have the right to go to Mars. But if I don't have the money (few Palestinian women work and, of that few, most work in low paying industries) or have the support and assistance of those who could help me (social norms and the courts are stacked against women in the territories), my right to go to Mars is pretty useless.

Less than 8% of Palestinian women own homes. A significantly larger percentage of Arab women own property in Israel than do their Palenstinian counterparts (though, of course, Israel is terrible, so I bet those homes have outdated light fixtures and ugly wallpaper). Their "rights" are only as useful as their ability to exercise them.

That's a far cry from your initial assertion that women in Gaza can't own real estate. Why not say whatyou mean to start and save us the silly games?

 

[EasternVol]

I'm sure their extended family that was there told them about their treatment. Be persecuted by people that sneer and talk about you behind your back.....or be persecuted by the Palestinians who had license to hurt and kill you.

Then the Holocaust in Europe happened and that kind of changed the calculus for Jews everywhere.

It wasn't abandoned they were dispersed purposefully by the Romans and the rest that was left by the Palestinians later. The ones that could flee did. The ones that couldn't or wouldn't leave stayed and were abused.

It's not nearly as simple as your stating. It would be like me forcing you out of your home at gunpoint and taking you elsewhere stripping you of rights to own property, then allow someone else to move into your home......... Do you have a legitimate claim to your home?

Yes I would have a legitimate claim, and I should exercise it. It i don't then I'm abandoning it.

 

[EasternVol]

When I consider a conflict like this I try to think of my own status. I try to apply like scenarios and consider my reactions and emotions.

The Palestinian/ Israeli situation is a very difficult one. I have to consider both sides of an equation and the near impossible factors to consider.

The Israeli psyche has to be considered. Having your homes stolen, taken from you twice! Being persecuted and dispersed by Romans, forced into slavery.

Then persecuted and hunted later in Europe, gassed or shot in the back in front of open pits, go to a camp if you were lucky and into forced labor until you were to weak or sick to work..... Then gassed.

Those who did remain treated as second class citizens, persecuted by those who became Palestinians who allied themselves with Rome during the rebellion.

The Palestinians on the other hand were on the losing side of WWII, they had allied themselves with Nazi Germany, in 41 there were even plans to exterminate Jews in what they called Palestine. But the war wasn't going well and Hitler had his hands full elsewhere to take this task on..... Thank goodness.

So the Palestinian people were on the unfortunate side of a decision to restore Israel a few years after the war. They were displaced and forced into smaller areas. Revolts and uprisings, civil unrest.

Then multiple uprisings against Israel with help from allies which them forced Palestinians into smaller areas, their allies losing land to Israel as well.

Then Palestinians have been used as political footballs by Israel, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria and Iran.

Land bought away from them, and outright taken.

Various attempts at peace have been made, some legitimate, some just window dressing. Both sides breaking promises and acting in bad faith at times during the years. Both sides killing each other.

If you take Israel away from Israelis you right a wrong for one group and wrong another. If you keep the status quo you right a wrong for one group and wrong another.

This conflict is impossible, neither side will budge, both say it's to the death. What do you do?

There are some good points there. But it's not accurate to say the Palestinians were on the wrong side in WWII. A lot of them fought on the Allied side. A lot of Zionists cooperated with Germany, and a lot didn't.

 

[EasternVol]

Interesting, since many Jews have lived there for thousands of years, even before WWII......but whatever.

Yes and they have rightful claim to their property. That doesn't mean that someone arriving from Poland has rightful claim too.

 

[EasternVol]

Every argument he trots out there is weak.

So refute them.

 

[KB5252]

There are some good points there. But it's not accurate to say the Palestinians were on the wrong side in WWII. A lot of them fought on the Allied side. A lot of Zionists cooperated with Germany, and a lot didn't.

The Palestinian leadership did cooperate with Nazi Germany, and they did conspire with the German plan to eradicate the Jews living there. Fate intervened.

Hash it any way you want that puts them on the wrong side.

 

[Orangeslice13]

The Palestinian leadership did cooperate with Nazi Germany, and they did conspire with the German plan to eradicate the Jews living there. Fate intervened.

Hash it any way you want that puts them on the wrong side.

No, the 15k Palestinians that had some partial Jewish ancestors who sided with the allied forces makes it a wash that the vast majority wanted to exterminate Jews.

 

[LadyVolette]

Where does that article say women can't? I read it as they're overcoming some recent discrimination but are exercising their rights (note they have the right).

It also says that if they try to claim it, they get get cut off by their families, and that is their basic support system since only 14 percent of the women work, so it’s basically in legalese only, not practice.. which is actually worse.. kind of like nana nana boo boo

 

[Vol8188]

The Palestinian leadership did cooperate with Nazi Germany, and they did conspire with the German plan to eradicate the Jews living there. Fate intervened.

Hash it any way you want that puts them on the wrong side.

Only people he perceives as white have agency. You can never blame anyone perceived as nonwhite for their own actions nor the actions of their government nor the actions of their ancestors.

This is just basic

 

[KB5252]

Yes I would have a legitimate claim, and I should exercise it. It i don't then I'm abandoning it.

The people they gave it to are in power now and won't allow you what is rightfully yours. In fact if you show up to claim it they would hurt/kill you.

Fast forward generations Israel is claiming a birthright that was stolen from them and given to another.

If you are gifted something stolen should you get to keep it?

These are all interesting perspectives and why I say this conflict is so difficult, I can identify and see the perspective of both sides. And no matter what you do to right a wrong you are harming the other side.

If only they could live peacefully together. But too much bad blood.