Israel vs Palestinians

#24,376
#24,376
KB5252 said:
So they can target more civilians? Both sides are targeting civilians. One side is more efficient at it. Hamas would do all that and more to inflict similar casualties on Israelis if they had the means.

I don't like the death any more than you do. But what is the answer?
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You and I don't know if Hamas would 'do all that and more' to Israelis if they had the chance. They've never had anything close to comparable military capabilities, and if they did then they'd be far stronger politically so in a better position to negotiate. So maybe yes and maybe no.
The answer is a political solution that both sides ungrudgingly accept. Saying it is the easy part.
 
#24,377
#24,377
EasternVol said:
You and I don't know if Hamas would 'do all that and more' to Israelis if they had the chance. They've never had anything close to comparable military capabilities, and if they did then they'd be far stronger politically so in a better position to negotiate. So maybe yes and maybe no.
The answer is a political solution that both sides ungrudgingly accept. Saying it is the easy part.
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Given their stated goals I don't really think that's possible.

There have been much more favorable terms offered them in the past that they've rejected. Israel isn't innocent in these negotiations, that's certain. But terms that could have led to peace have been rejected multiple times and each side escalates to varying degrees. Saying it is the easy part for sure.
 
#24,378
#24,378
KB5252 said:
Given their stated goals I don't really think that's possible.

There have been much more favorable terms offered them in the past that they've rejected. Israel isn't innocent in these negotiations, that's certain. But terms that could have led to peace have been rejected multiple times and each side escalates to varying degrees. Saying it is the easy part for sure.
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It's probably not possible from what I see.
Are you talking about hamas or the PA? I don't think just hamas has been offered any settlement terms. As far as I know none of the settlement terms offered from the UN plan until today have been close to favorable to the Palestinians.
 
#24,381
#24,381
Franklin Pierce said:
On Sunday, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Charles Q. Brown made the extraordinary claim that America will not protect Israel in a war with Lebanon's Hezbollah terrorists.

'The U.S. won't likely be able to help Israel defend itself against a broader Hezbollah war as well as it helped Israel fight off an Iranian barrage of missiles and drones,' Brown told reporters.


View attachment 654025
Hezbollah training exercises in southern Lebanon on May 21, 2023.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The looming war so gruesome it would make Gaza look like child's play

The Middle East is now closer to all-out regional war than it was when Israel traded direct strikes with Iran in the months after Hamas's October 7 terror attacks.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
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Why should we be fighting Hezbollah?
 
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#24,382
#24,382
EasternVol said:
It's probably not possible from what I see.
Are you talking about hamas or the PA? I don't think just hamas has been offered any settlement terms. As far as I know none of the settlement terms offered from the UN plan until today have been close to favorable to the Palestinians.
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I'm talking about in the past, I didn't remember the details but the PA was offered some deals that were very unpopular for Israelis and considered generous. The PA walked away. Now were they perfect for Palestinians, no. But it was a starting point. At times over the years both sides have sunk any deal that might result in peace.

I try to be fair, the Palestinians have certainly suffered. The Israeli's have certainly done things I didn't agree with and it's a very difficult situation with third parties piling the strings for Palestinians and driving agendas that are counter to their best interests.
 
#24,383
#24,383
Rasputin_Vol said:
It goes further than that. They don't even believe Palestine as a region on the map exists.
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Palestine is akin to Appalachia, the Mississippi Delta or the Middle East. It's an identifier for a geographic area but not a sovereign nation or a homeland for one specific ethnicity. Never has been and never will be either of those.
 
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#24,385
#24,385
hndog609 said:
Actually if there was, for instance, a compound of Jews that were knowingly sheltering Hamas terrorists I'm not sure it couldn't be posited the approach would be all that different. They'd be considered traitors of the most heinous nature. Of course what we all (well, most of us anyway) understand is that the idea of Israeli citizens en mass harboring Hamas fighters really doesn't make for a good comparative argument.
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Ergo a non sequitur exactly as was mentioned and exactly something that NV11 would grab onto as something of substance when it really isn't.
 
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#24,387
#24,387
Rasputin_Vol said:
It goes further than that. They don't even believe Palestine as a region on the map exists.
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Being a region on a map doesn't make them NATIONALLY Palestinians. Just like living in Tennessee doesn't make someone ethnically/racially/nationally a Tennessean. Just means they live in a state called Tennessee.
 
#24,388
#24,388
82_VOL_83 said:
Ergo a non sequitur exactly as was mentioned and exactly something that NV11 would grab onto as something of substance when it really isn't.
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You don’t know what a non sequitur is. There is zero chance Israel would be shooting up hospitals in the same manner if those hospitals were in Israel
 
#24,389
#24,389
bamawriter said:
There's some real irony in the chyron reading "GENOCIDE IN GAZA" when they are talking to an old woman that survived an (alleged) attack. The Israelis really suck at genocide.
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Now, when someone suggests it’s not a genocide because they remember another genocide that was worse, THAT would be a non sequitur
 
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#24,393
#24,393
bamawriter said:
I don't know if @82_VOL_83 knows what a non-sequitur is. But if he doesn't, you just provided a perfect example.
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The notion that Israel is being much more intentionally reckless with the lives of Palestinian civilians than they would be with Israeli citizens is not only not a non sequitur, it’s not even remotely complicated and two different posters have spent multiple pages confused by it lol
 
#24,394
#24,394
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#24,395
#24,395
NashVol11 said:
The notion that Israel is being much more intentionally reckless with the lives of Palestinian civilians than they would be with Israeli citizens is not only not a non sequitur, it’s not even remotely complicated and two different posters have spent multiple pages confused by it lol
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But you just left out the original premise that was called "brilliant" in your link. It's that premise that results in the non-sequitur.
 
#24,396
#24,396
#24,397
#24,397
jcvols24 said:


These are the citizens we should be worried about? They are all Hamas. The women, the children, everyone there, because that is all they've known. I'm not going to say kill em all, cause death shouldn't be celebrated, but I'm not gonna shed a tear when what they want to so joyously celebrate comes knocking on their door either.
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Every time I see that video I'm reminded of the 8th century savagery of these animals. That young lady is lifeless, legs broke and partially nude. This is the way her family found out she was one of the victims of this brutality.
 
#24,398
#24,398
Feekless, another incompetent DEI hire or typical new age leftist?

Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman: US likely unable to assist Israel in war with Hezbollah​

Joint Chiefs of Staff head Charles Q. Brown warned on Monday that the US may not be able to help defend Israel against an all-out war with Hezbollah in the same way that it stepped in during the Iran drone attack in April.

Brown, a US Air Force general, also said that Iran “would be more inclined to support Hezbollah."


m.jpost.com

Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman: US likely unable to assist Israel in war with Hezbollah

Gen. Brown asked Israel to think of how a war would affect the region, as well as the impact it would have on US forces.
m.jpost.com m.jpost.com
 
#24,399
#24,399
82_VOL_83 said:
Being a region on a map doesn't make them NATIONALLY Palestinians. Just like living in Tennessee doesn't make someone ethnically/racially/nationally a Tennessean. Just means they live in a state called Tennessee.
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OK?
Still means home is home whatever it is called or whatever side of a line your home is on.

You do understand the concept of "home" and "family", right?
 
#24,400
#24,400
bamawriter said:
I don't know if @82_VOL_83 knows what a non-sequitur is. But if he doesn't, you just provided a perfect example.
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The original clip isn't a non-squitur. If a terrorist group was hiding amongst Israelis the terrorists would be considered criminals and the Israeli civilians as innocents unless they were actively aiding the terrorists. And the IDF wouldn't be likely to massacre their own innocents, or at least not so many, would they?
 
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