It's a whole new ballgame: 2008 New York Yankees Thread

#103
#103
Yeah seriously, dropping a series against the Orioles in this fashion is not acceptable.

Hughes and Kennedy have regressed since last season. Now A-Rod's out with a quad injury and we've got 2 good pitchers.

At least we're still at .500
 
#105
#105
I don't mind it too bad. If I had too choose between an owner caring too much and one that doesn't care at all, I'd choose the Steinbrenners.

The players are used to it by now, so I'm not concerned about that. I'm just as concerned as Hank is about the rotation, but I'll give it a little longer than 4 starts a piece.
 
#106
#106
I continue to wonder why any team who wants to win would let a talent like Joba Chamberlain languish in the bullpen while giving starts to the reanimated corpse of Mike Mussina.
 
#108
#108
Vercingetorix said:
I continue to wonder why any team who wants to win would let a talent like Joba Chamberlain languish in the bullpen while giving starts to the reanimated corpse of Mike Mussina.
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Then we would lose every game, instead of usually just the ones Wang starts.
 
#109
#109
**ORANGEBLOOD** said:
2/3 of an inning by Mussina and 7 runs...he is officially d-u-n.
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Check his last several starts. Better than what a lot of other guys are throwing out there.

He was one Jeter error short of getting out of the inning having only given up 1 run.

Of course he would've given up those runs later, but he did only finish with 1 earned.
 
#110
#110
My point was not really to dump on Mussina; honestly, I'd be happy to see Mussina getting starts in the Braves' rotation right now. My point was that they have an enormously talented starting pitching prospect in Chamberlain, but for some reason they'd rather use overpriced retread all-stars like Mussina and Pettitte in the rotation. Mussina and Pettitte are basically league average pitchers right now. Average pitchers are valuable, of course; the Braves lost the division last year because they couldn't find a couple more of them. But why would you run average pitchers out there and waste Chamberlain in the bullpen going one inning at a time? You'd think they would have learned something from Kevin Brown and Randy Johnson, but apparently not.

(I understand bringing Chamberlain along slowly, but you do that with pitch counts, not putting him in the bullpen. Make a list of the 30 best starting pitchers of the last 30 years, and I'd guess 28 of them began their ML careers in the rotation. At best the Yankees are wasting Chamberlain in the bullpen; at worst, they're screwing up his development.)
 
#112
#112
That's dumb. I have to believe 75% of players were juicing. Were some of them Yankees? Sure.
Did every team have at least one guilty party? I would have to think certainly so.
 
#113
#113
Vercingetorix said:
My point was not really to dump on Mussina; honestly, I'd be happy to see Mussina getting starts in the Braves' rotation right now. My point was that they have an enormously talented starting pitching prospect in Chamberlain, but for some reason they'd rather use overpriced retread all-stars like Mussina and Pettitte in the rotation. Mussina and Pettitte are basically league average pitchers right now. Average pitchers are valuable, of course; the Braves lost the division last year because they couldn't find a couple more of them. But why would you run average pitchers out there and waste Chamberlain in the bullpen going one inning at a time? You'd think they would have learned something from Kevin Brown and Randy Johnson, but apparently not.

(I understand bringing Chamberlain along slowly, but you do that with pitch counts, not putting him in the bullpen. Make a list of the 30 best starting pitchers of the last 30 years, and I'd guess 28 of them began their ML careers in the rotation. At best the Yankees are wasting Chamberlain in the bullpen; at worst, they're screwing up his development.)
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And would you look at that...Girardi lets the media in on a little secret...

Last night was the beginning of Joba's transition to the rotation.

I for one am excited. I look up towards the top of our division, and I see the Sox bring in quality starters from the farm system (Lester, Bucholtz, Masterson) and I get jealous.

Well, with Rasner pitching lights out when he's healthy and now Joba coming to the rotation we might just have to push out the oldies.

I was hesitant for a little bit but I look at some other teams with not so good bullpens still winning, ala the Braves, and I think that with the Yankees' offense, a not so strong bullpen might result in a couple of extra losses, but if you've got guys like Wang, Joba, and Rasner pitching 7 inning of 0-2 run ball, most nights that will be good enough.
 
#114
#114
UTLCA said:
I was hesitant for a little bit but I look at some other teams with not so good bullpens still winning, ala the Braves, and I think that with the Yankees' offense, a not so strong bullpen might result in a couple of extra losses, but if you've got guys like Wang, Joba, and Rasner pitching 7 inning of 0-2 run ball, most nights that will be good enough.
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0-2 runs over 7 regularly is a stretch, but i agree with your point. A superb bullpen is great to have, of course, but it is not all that important if you can get to the 8th with a lead behind your starter.
 
#115
#115
I can't imagine why any team would worry about the 7th or 8th inning more than they would the rotation. Geez, people, this isn't that hard.

(Of course, given how hard Phil Hughes has sucked this year, maybe it makes sense that the Yanks wouldn't want to rush Chamberlain up into the Disappointment Zone yet.)
 
#116
#116
1. Wang and Joba will probably be the type to give up just 2-3 regularly, with the 0-1 runs coming in every now and then.

2. Joba had only pitched 84 innings during his minor league career, so its understandable that they are going to be incredibly cautious with him.
 
#117
#117
the ian kennedy and phil hughes struggles make it painfully obvious that the yanks have no need to rush Joba even if they are sitting in the AL East cellar.
 
#118
#118
I fail to see how putting him directly into the rotation like just about every other great starting pitching prospect in history is "rushing" him. That's what pitch counts are for. Being a starter is about developing your five-day routine, learning to pace yourself over the course of a game, etc. Pitching for one or two innings at a time every couple of days isn't going to help Chamberlain develop any of that.
 
#119
#119
Vercingetorix said:
I fail to see how putting him directly into the rotation like just about every other great starting pitching prospect in history is "rushing" him. That's what pitch counts are for. Being a starter is about developing your five-day routine, learning to pace yourself over the course of a game, etc. Pitching for one or two innings at a time every couple of days isn't going to help Chamberlain develop any of that.
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I'm just not sure Joba is ready to go that hard for that long, even if it is simply an 80 pitch count. My guess is he's throwing harder on the side to get ready, but I can't imagine he's a great starting pitching prospect with how little he's thrown long innings. Like UTCLA said, he didn't exactly throw that much in the minors.
 
#120
#120
B/c they would need to put him in AAA for a couple of starts, and they aren't willing to lose his valuable arm to Scranton for any amount of time.

They are increasing his workload incrementally for a couple of weeks and then they'll let him start.

Tomorrow he throws 45 pitches after throwing 35 on Wednesday night.
 
#121
#121
He's 22, not 18. If he's not ready to go 80 pitches now, he's never going to be. And seriously, if you're trying to baby him -- is it really better to run him out there pitching high-stress innings late in close games?

As long as Yankees fans are happy, I guess. I just can't help but see the preference for has-been former all-stars as symptomatic of everything that the Yankees have done wrong for the last decade.
 
#122
#122
UTLCA said:
Tomorrow he throws 45 pitches after throwing 35 on Wednesday night.
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Awesome. Some horse they must have there. I guess at some point you just have to figure that if they're treating him like a little girl, there must be a reason for it.
 
#123
#123
That's their program...and I don't know enough about pitching and such to criticize how they are doing things...as long as it works out.

Now if it doesn't, well then that's a different story.
 
#124
#124
Vercingetorix said:
Awesome. Some horse they must have there. I guess at some point you just have to figure that if they're treating him like a little girl, there must be a reason for it.
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When he goes out and pitches an inning for a hold situation how many pitches does he throw?

10-15? When your arm is used to throwing hard for that amount it is going to have to adjust to being stretched out gradually, not all at once. I sincerely doubt you would just throw a guy out there to throw 90 pitches in the middle of the year without some type of breaking-in time.

Otherwise that's how kids destroy their elbows and shoulders, and that's obviously not what we want.

Plus as long as they are getting decent pitching like they have for the last couple of starts there really is no need to freak out more than we/they already are.
 
#125
#125
Vercingetorix said:
Awesome. Some horse they must have there. I guess at some point you just have to figure that if they're treating him like a little girl, there must be a reason for it.
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I'm really not sure your background in baseball, but I know from reading that you're quite knowledgeable on it. I played for quite some time, but I never even teased being a pitcher. I really don't see any reason to just push him out there and say throw 80 pitches today... I don't consider raising his increments by 10-15 every time treating him like a girl. He may be 22, but that doesn't mean he can just automatically throw 80-100 pitches just because he can look dominant throwing 30.
 
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