It's time for a change

[Volstylexx]

Fire Rick Barnes! The men laid exactly the kind of egg tonight that gets the Fire Kellie crowd going. Flat, lifeless, couldn't hit a layup to save their lives, couldn't hit free throws. DK got going late but overall it was the kind of game you hoped the team was far beyond. Just like the Texas A&M game for LVs.

Of course the difference is that Rick has lots of signature wins that KJH doesn't have. Helps pad the blow when the team shows up looking like it only found out about the game a few minutes ago.

 

[VolFuture]

Fire Rick Barnes! The men laid exactly the kind of egg tonight that gets the Fire Kellie crowd going. Flat, lifeless, couldn't hit a layup to save their lives, couldn't hit free throws. DK got going late but overall it was the kind of game you hoped the team was far beyond. Just like the Texas A&M game for LVs.

Of course the difference is that Rick has lots of signature wins that KJH doesn't have. Helps pad the blow when the team shows up looking like it only found out about the game a few minutes ago.

5 losses and tied for 3rd with 3 teams in the SEC

 

[VolFuture]

5 losses and tied for 3rd with 3 teams in the SEC

Also lost all their big non conference games other than Illinois (1-4 in ranked games)

And beat now unranked Ole Miss at home

 

[Coach Jumper]

Fire Rick Barnes! The men laid exactly the kind of egg tonight that gets the Fire Kellie crowd going. Flat, lifeless, couldn't hit a layup to save their lives, couldn't hit free throws. DK got going late but overall it was the kind of game you hoped the team was far beyond. Just like the Texas A&M game for LVs.

Of course the difference is that Rick has lots of signature wins that KJH doesn't have. Helps pad the blow when the team shows up looking like it only found out about the game a few minutes ago.

did you actually watch the game,,,at one point the refs called four fouls in a row within one minute,,,,their Center led with elbows all night...they were lucky to get out of the game uninjured.

How Rick held his cool when that happened is a tribute to that man...it was fully 5 and 3 refs on 5 TN players,,,watch the game glv,,,sheesh

And I thought the women's refs were bad,, those idiots were pathetic.
I commend the crowd for not throwing cokes at those striped cheating refs

 

[Coach Jumper]

He will never coach at UT, period. BTW, guess who his ace recruiter was at Louisville?

Samantha Williams.

and thats the truth!

Cause stone cold jumper says so

 

[glv98]

did you actually watch the game,,,at one point the refs called four fouls in a row within one minute,,,,their Center led with elbows all night...they were lucky to get out of the game uninjured.

How Rick held his cool when that happened is a tribute to that man...it was fully 5 and 3 refs on 5 TN players,,,watch the game glv,,,sheesh

And I thought the women's refs were bad,, those idiots were pathetic.
I commendw the crowd for not throwing cokes at those striped cheating refs

Fire Rick was a joke of course. I love the Deacon. Just pointing out that all teams are still capable of having that terrible night. Yes the reffing was standard bad but all those missed layups, free throws and 3s were worse.

 

[glv98]

It's related to the abject nonsense and corruption that is NIL as used to recruit prospects, which in practice has amounted to which schools will offer the biggest bribe to get a player signed. And THIS is what people think college athletics should be about? It's turning college sports into a completely sleazy affair. NIL should be completely banned from recruiting. The collectives should be disbanded. Schools should recruit as they have for decades--you pick a school because you want to go there--like the program, coach, academics, environment, whatever, not because some school offered you a lot of money.

Either keep the student-athletes as students or break off the athletic departments entirely from the university, turn them into private clubs--and at least that way you spare universities all this seediness. Otherwise, once a kid is on campus an playing, if s/he becomes a good player and some private business wants to use them for promotional purposes, then an NIL deal can be arranged--but only after they are in school, and maybe even in school for a year. This is college. If you, a prospect, are simply a money-grubber--then find a way to turn pro and stay away from college.

Not sure why this was hard. Totally agree, separate NIL from recruiting by allowing it only after athlete is enrolled.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Fire Rick was a joke of course. I love the Deacon. Just pointing out that all teams are still capable of having that terrible night. Yes the reffing was standard bad but all those missed layups, free throws and 3s were worse.

truly,,,I was surprised Rick didn't use a timeout for a "teaching moment" re the missed bunnies.
the announcer was tracking them and the bunnies missed were definite makeables.
At one point it was 8 for 16 missed layups...that is 16 points in a, then, tie game!

 

[madtownvol]

Not sure where you actually stand on current recruiting here, but I think your last line sums it up. The LVs are not gaining ground, they're clearly losing it. Part of that is bc WBB is still a sport where the rich get richer fast and So Car is moving the ground so far ahead it's hard to gain any. Still, our overall recruiting and roster are not keeping up to championship contending level.

I appreciate portal recruiting, hate to think where we'd be without it. Maybe it's old man me, but seems like it's awfully dangerous to have portal be a must have every year. I'd still like to see a balance with hs recruiting and a balanced roster that isn't 9 guards who are all juniors. Whole classes that are empty scare me. But maybe that's all old fashioned.

Not sure where all the MVC stuff comes in; I said many we've recruited are middlin or tweeners as far as their skills. We're plugging and playing to shore up weaknesses far too much. The real issue IMO is that we're not landing truly elite recruits, esp out of high school. The kind that LSU and So Carolina have lots of. We have a couple fm the portal and one on the way in Brooks, but that's just not enough to keep up.

Let me clarify, your position as I understood is that the LVs have been recruited blue chip players but striking out. That is reasonable assessment. You had been debating another poster who said that Kellie only targets MVC caliber player and that was the reference in my post.

Recruiting can take different paths. Many posters are used to the LV golden days when CPS would 2 or 3 top ten recruits just about every year. If you are not winning at that level, you can recruit lesser ranked players who fit a team identity and try to make the sum greater than its part.

Coach Yo has done with a little help from the portal. Wynn and Boyd seem to be those kind of players- though Boyd by reputation will be more polished coming in.

In the shorter term, that might be the strategy -- get the McD AA types through the portal and solid players out of HS who might blossom.

 

[Majors]

He will never coach at UT, period. BTW, guess who his ace recruiter was at Louisville?

Samantha Williams.

Guess the difference is the closer

 

[Majors]

truly,,,I was surprised Rick didn't use a timeout for a "teaching moment" re the missed bunnies.
the announcer was tracking them and the bunnies missed were definite makeables.
At one point it was 8 for 16 missed layups...that is 16 points in a, then, tie game!

Believe Rick was over it, the teaching moment is the loss and move on.

 

[glv98]

In the shorter term, that might be the strategy -- get the McD AA types through the portal and solid players out of HS who might blossom.

No doubt that's the current strategy, but IMO it's the fallback strategy bc we aren't getting the elites from high school. Pretty sure everyone's preferred recruiting strategy is the one Dawn and the other championship contenders use - rake in the elites early and often and have them for as long as you can.

Again, maybe I'm just out of step, but it's scary as hell to hope what you need turns up in the portal and chooses you. It also causes these gaping holes in class and position. For example, if we don't get a post in the portal this spring we will have zero, that's zero, posts on our roster next spring. That puts us back in take what's available mode (also known as "might blossom") and that's exactly what has us in the spot we're in. Real hard to compete with MBers vs teams full of true elites.

 

[FormerLadyVolFan]

Not much scarier than taking high school kids that may or may not live up to their high rankings or make the adjustment to collegiate competition.

Again, maybe I'm just out of step, but it's scary as hell to hope what you need turns up in the portal and chooses you. It also causes these gaping holes in class and position. For example, if we don't get a post in the portal this spring we will have zero, that's zero, posts on our roster next spring. That puts us back in take what's available mode (also known as "might blossom") and that's exactly what has us in the spot we're in. Real hard to compete with MBers vs teams full of true elites.

 

[glv98]

Not much scarier than taking high school kids that may or may not live up to their high rankings or make the adjustment to collegiate competition.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I'd much rather have an already elite level player who might not pan out than a tweener who might blossom into an elite. I'll bet the odds are much more in favor of the elite staying elite than a tweener becoming one.

Not dissing role players or up and comers at all, every team needs them. I love ours. But it's pretty easy to see from current results that teams that recruit elites from hs supplemented by a couple of more elites from the portal are winning the day. And the trophies.

 

[Volfan2012]

Not much scarier than taking high school kids that may or may not live up to their high rankings or make the adjustment to collegiate competition.

No doubt that's the current strategy, but IMO it's the fallback strategy bc we aren't getting the elites from high school. Pretty sure everyone's preferred recruiting strategy is the one Dawn and the other championship contenders use - rake in the elites early and often and have them for as long as you can.

Again, maybe I'm just out of step, but it's scary as hell to hope what you need turns up in the portal and chooses you. It also causes these gaping holes in class and position. For example, if we don't get a post in the portal this spring we will have zero, that's zero, posts on our roster next spring. That puts us back in take what's available mode (also known as "might blossom") and that's exactly what has us in the spot we're in. Real hard to compete with MBers vs teams full of true elites.

You need a little of both not one or the other. Like 2025 you certainly wouldn't want a class of six freshmen to go with the three returnees. The ideal would be an even amount from portal and high school. We have been depending way to much on the portal and that has to change and it has to start now in 2025.Next year we have most of the roster coming back still have to use our four to five scholarships for portal players have no choice to do otherwise.

 

[glv98]

You need a little of both not one or the other. Like 2025 you certainly wouldn't want a class of six freshmen to go with the three returnees. The ideal would be an even amount from portal and high school. We have been depending way to much on the portal and that has to change and it has to start now in 2025.Next year we have most of the roster coming back still have to use our four to five scholarships for portal players have no choice to do otherwise.

Agree, there still needs to be balance btw hs and portal to keep your roster in balance. But even more importantly, we have to be able to consistently get elite recruits from somewhere. We've gotten a couple from the portal, thank goodness, and a couple on the way in the future. But clearly not enough. It's why we can't compete with a roster like Dawn's.

 

[Volfan2012]

Never had more interest in the portal than this upcoming one. If we can't get the right players in that sixty day portal along with an elite top high school recruiting class 2025 we become Georgia or Kentucky of this year in 2025.

 

[glv98]

Never had more interest in the portal than this upcoming one. If we can't get the right players in that sixty day portal along with an elite top high school recruiting class 2025 we become Georgia or Kentucky of this year in 2025.

Not sure we'll be that bad, but we sure won't be moving up. Part of the painful cycle we're in is if our season doesn't go well it hurts our chances in the all important portal this spring.

But the upside is maybe in 25 we will pioneer truly "positionless" basketball because we'll have a team of 9 or 10 guards, all roughly the same size and all sophs and juniors. Good times!

 

[Volfan2012]

Agree, there still needs to be balance btw hs and portal to keep your roster in balance. But even more importantly, we have to be able to consistently get elite recruits from somewhere. We've gotten a couple from the portal, thank goodness, and a couple on the way in the future. But clearly not enough. It's why we can't compete with a roster like Dawn's.

What we have to fix for next year is the inside game. So who is going to be in the portal that is an elite type post player and of course how many and chances of getting them? If we get none in the portal then were playing Jill, Karoline, and Sarah in there maybe Tamari comes back who knows? Then if in the 2025 class you don't have post players and even if you do they are inexperienced freshmen. So portal has a new meaning for Coach Kellie and staff this year really in desperation mode to find great players. If they can do it then the team in 2024 becomes better than this years team because with all the returnees you add some elite post you just fixed the main problem we have this year. Bad news they need to be at least two year players cause one year helps you in 2024 but you become a vacant lot in 2025.

 

[Volfan2012]

Not sure we'll be that bad, but we sure won't be moving up. Part of the painful cycle we're in is if our season doesn't go well it hurts our chances in the all important portal this spring.

But the upside is maybe in 25 we will pioneer truly "positionless" basketball because we'll have a team of 9 or 10 guards, all roughly the same size and all sophs and juniors. Good times!

Strong post from portal are the saving grace for next years team. You get a couple that can score and rebound inside you can use our current group as stretch fours and be a much better team than this one.

 

[Majors]

Not much scarier than taking high school kids that may or may not live up to their high rankings or make the adjustment to collegiate competition.

A team that can evaluate and develop doesn’t worry too much. Instead of getting wrapped up in a number, they see their role,filling the need and make it work.

 

[Majors]

Gee, that's pretty desperate, even for you, digging up 6 year old post, just like someone on Volquest does...hmmm...

I found out pretty soon after that what was going on with Walz. That was also before Kellie took her team to the Sweet 16.

Rest easy, I’m a one message board fan. Haven’t paid since Chris Low left.

 

[glv98]

Strong post from portal are the saving grace for next years team. You get a couple that can score and rebound inside you can use our current group as stretch fours and be a much better team than this one.

Maybe we can continue to live on the edge and have the portal be our saving grace every year. Like it has been for scoring the last couple of years. So could be I'm just old and scared, but that does not seem a safe strategy to me.

 

[1reVOLver]

Questions:

1) Who are the potential portal candidates among current post players?

2) How many other D1 teams would be in the portal market for talented post players?

3) Assuming playing time would be available at any new team for a talented post player, what would the players be looking for, and are we likely to have it*?

* Desperation is outside the realm of this discussion.

 

[glv98]

Strong post from portal are the saving grace for next years team. You get a couple that can score and rebound inside you can use our current group as stretch fours and be a much better team than this one.

Except for the 20 pts and 7 or 8 rebounds that will have to come from somewhere. IMO, for next yr to be better we need a young and very good post and another reliable scorer. Don't think Jewel can carry scoring alone next yr nor should she have to.