I've hesitated to post this thread, but someone has to speak out.

#801
#801
luthervol said:
So the instant you place the cake pan in the oven the ingredients become a cake? (in name only-it is obviously still just cake batter)
Do you have to let go of the pan first or is it a cake as soon as the pan is inside of the oven? If you have to let go of it first, is it a cake before you shut the oven door or do you have to shut the oven door first? If you remove the cake as soon as you put it in the oven, does it go back to being called cake batter?

But according to you, all of the ingredients necessary for the creation of a separate and unique cake does not make it a cake - only the baking process makes it a cake
All of the ingredients necessary (DNA) for a separate human would not make a separate human - only the "baking" process.
So an egg fertilized outside of the womb would not constitute the same level of human as an egg fertilized inside the womb?
And what is the equivalent of the beginning of the baking process for humans?
A fertilized egg? (that would be the batter) Attachment to the uterine wall?
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Location is not the issue. The process is the issue. I admittedly am a novice re: baking, but it was my understanding that simply moving the location of cake batter has no effect upon any chemical reactions that are necessary to turn the batter into a cake. Interrupting tbe process once it has begun, obviously, will interfere with the process.

Comparing mixed cake batter to a fertlized egg is quite a stretch.
 
#802
#802
I will again state that I was under the impression on this board that personal health care decisions should be left to the individual.

Before you all get started, I opposed and still oppose vaccine mandates, so take that elsewhere.
 
#803
#803
zeppelin128 said:
I will again state that I was under the impression on this board that personal health care decisions should be left to the individual.

Before you all get started, I opposed and still oppose vaccine mandates, so take that elsewhere.
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There are two individuals involved in an abortion and 1 isn't getting a say.
 
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#804
#804
85SugarVol said:
What? Trade executions for abortions? A “handful”?

What are you trying to say here?

Your last sentence is woefully ignorant, and/or naive
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Are you seriously trying to say that we can never, ever determine guilt beyond any shadow of a doubt?

Perhaps I wasn't clear that "handful" is a relative term and not meant to be taken literally as five or less. If one could produce a pie graph comparing state executions to abortions since 1973, I believe you would agree that the amount of executions would be represented by a tiny sliver compared to the estimated 70 million abortions. Do you not agree? Please provide actual numbers if you have them and we'll see how tbey stack up.

I'm saying that I believe most pro-life people would gladly pragmatically support abolition of the death penalty in return for abolition of abortion but that pro-abortion people woukd not do likewise.
 
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#805
#805
hog88 said:
There are two individuals involved in an abortion and 1 isn't getting a say.
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You are positing the rare late term abortion to make your point about girls taking a morning after pill. You are better than this, and should realize the NAP supports pro-choice movements for a reason. It ain't any of our business.
 
#806
#806
Edit: I just looked up death penalty statistics. Just under 1500 executions have taken place since 1976.

Compared to 70 million abortions, that's a relative handful of executions.
 
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#810
#810
creekdipper said:
Are you seriously trying to say that we can never, ever determine guilt beyond any shadow of a doubt?

Perhaps I wasn't clear that "handful" is a relative term and not meant to be taken literally as five or less. If one could produce a pie graph comparing state executions to abortions since 1973, I believe you would agree that the amount of executions would be represented by a tiny sliver compared to the estimated 70 million abortions. Do you not agree? Please provide actual numbers if you have them and we'll see how tbey stack up.

I'm saying that I believe most pro-life people would gladly pragmatically support abolition of the death penalty in return for abolition of abortion but that pro-abortion people woukd not do likewise.
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Yes. There have been many, many more unborn babies terminated than death row inmates.

But the 2 are not related, and are certainly not fungible.

reserve that sentence to those whose guilt has been determined beyond any doubt by a combination of physical evidence, confessions, and witness testimony
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These ^^ are your words on the death penalty.
 
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#812
#812
hog88 said:
I was actually talking about the father not having a say but ok.
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It’s unfair to the fathers - but I side with the mother.
It’s unfair to the babies - but I side with the mother.

It is quite literally impossible to split the baby here.
 
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#817
#817
creekdipper said:
Location is not the issue. The process is the issue. I admittedly am a novice re: baking, but it was my understanding that simply moving the location of cake batter has no effect upon any chemical reactions that are necessary to turn the batter into a cake. Interrupting tbe process once it has begun, obviously, will interfere with the process.

Comparing mixed cake batter to a fertlized egg is quite a stretch.
Click to expand...
creekdipper said:
Edit: I just looked up death penalty statistics. Just under 1500 executions have taken place since 1976.

Compared to 70 million abortions, that's a relative handful of executions.
Click to expand...
70 million? Where did that number come from? Seems a little high.
But regardless, 95% of those were performed during the first 12 weeks and 99% before week 20.
And considering that 75% of zygotes never reach the 6 week stage, over 700 million have aborted naturally during that time.
 
#821
#821
creekdipper said:
Location is not the issue. The process is the issue. I admittedly am a novice re: baking, but it was my understanding that simply moving the location of cake batter has no effect upon any chemical reactions that are necessary to turn the batter into a cake. Interrupting tbe process once it has begun, obviously, will interfere with the process.

Comparing mixed cake batter to a fertlized egg is quite a stretch.
Click to expand...
The intent was obviously to show the futility in trying to define an exact moment when a cake becomes a cake, or a cell becomes a human.
Some batter has to sit for a period of time before it's placed in the oven.
 
#824
#824
85SugarVol said:
In this scenario, one is forced to “break a tie”. I choose the mother if it’s up to me.

But how can you say it’s none of the father’s business? You lose me there.
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I didn't say it was none of the father's business. I said it was none of our business.
 
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