I've hesitated to post this thread, but someone has to speak out.

[85SugarVol]

I didn't say it was none of the father's business. I said it was none of our business.

Ok.
The sequence of posts threw me off I guess.

 

[hog88]

None of our business as in the general public.

I agree to a point. As I've said earlier I'm against a complete ban on abortions but there should be a time when they are no longer an option.

 

[zeppelin128]

Ok.
The sequence of posts threw me off I guess.

View attachment 447429

I stand by what I said. It ain't our business.

 

[85SugarVol]

I stand by what I said. It ain't our business.

I’m not disagreeing, but that sequence of posts made it look like you were saying fathers.

 

[zeppelin128]

I’m not disagreeing, but that sequence of posts made it look like you were saying fathers.

I'm sayin it ain't our business. I don't care. That is their business and their choice. I don't care. It ain't my business, so like a rational personal I keep to myself.

 

[hog88]

I'm sayin it ain't our business. I don't care. That is their business and their choice. I don't care. It ain't my business, so like a rational personal I keep to myself.

Settle down skippy.

 

[85SugarVol]

I'm sayin it ain't our business. I don't care. That is their business and their choice. I don't care. It ain't my business, so like a rational personal I keep to myself.

Ohhhhh-Kaaayyy

 

[luthervol]

DeSantis signs Florida's 15-week abortion ban into law - CNNPolitics
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signed into law on Thursday a Mississippi-style anti-abortion measure that bans the procedure after 15 weeks of pregnancy without exemptions for rape, incest or human trafficking.
The bill, which goes into effect July 1, does allow exemptions in cases where a pregnancy is "serious risk" to the mother or a fatal fetal abnormality is detected if two physicians confirm the diagnosis in writing.

 

[zeppelin128]

Settle down skippy.

It isn't any of our *** **** business. I am getting sick of supposed libertarians on here going out of there way to support the state.

 

[zeppelin128]

DeSantis signs Florida's 15-week abortion ban into law - CNNPolitics
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signed into law on Thursday a Mississippi-style anti-abortion measure that bans the procedure after 15 weeks of pregnancy without exemptions for rape, incest or human trafficking.
The bill, which goes into effect July 1, does allow exemptions in cases where a pregnancy is "serious risk" to the mother or a fatal fetal abnormality is detected if two physicians confirm the diagnosis in writing.

He's a damn theocrat. Why are you surprised?

 

[hog88]

It isn't any of our *** **** business. I am getting sick of supposed libertarians on here going out of there way to support the state.

WTF is supporting the state? A pregnancy involves more than 1 person so while most pregnancies are none of my business there have been 2 that were very much my business.

 

[hog88]

DeSantis signs Florida's 15-week abortion ban into law - CNNPolitics
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signed into law on Thursday a Mississippi-style anti-abortion measure that bans the procedure after 15 weeks of pregnancy without exemptions for rape, incest or human trafficking.
The bill, which goes into effect July 1, does allow exemptions in cases where a pregnancy is "serious risk" to the mother or a fatal fetal abnormality is detected if two physicians confirm the diagnosis in writing.

Sounds reasonable without reading into it.

 

[85SugarVol]

It isn't any of our *** **** business. I am getting sick of supposed libertarians on here going out of there way to support the state.

Who is supporting the State?

 

[luthervol]

Sounds reasonable without reading into it.

It actually is for the most part. It was pretty much just red meat to the right wing nuts. But the very few abortions it may stop are ones I probably would support.

 

[85SugarVol]

But the very few abortions it may stop are ones I probably have supported.

Which types are you referring to?

 

[luthervol]

Which types are you referring to?

Someone wishing to have an abortion at 15 weeks and 2 days.
Why would someone choose to wait until after 15 weeks to seek an abortion?
There are several answers you could come up with.
All of the answers point to a person not prepared to be a mother.

If drugs/alcohol are a part of the equation.............

 

[85SugarVol]

Someone wishing to have an abortion at 15 weeks and 2 days.
Why would someone choose to wait until after 15 weeks to seek an abortion?
There are several answers you could come up with.
All of the answers point to a person not prepared to be a mother.

If drugs/alcohol are a part of the equation.............

I am confused by the entire premise that a woman’s right to choose has an expiration date.

 

[creekdipper]

Yes. There have been many, many more unborn babies terminated than death row inmates.

But the 2 are not related, and are certainly not fungible.

These ^^ are your words on the death penalty.

So if we have the suspect's confession, we have verifiable evidence such as DNA, video, fingerprints, murder weapon, victims' posessions, etc. plus we have eyewitness testimony, you still would have doubts as to the suspect's guilt? In that case, how could any suspect ever be convicted of any crime?

As to "not being related," I'm sure that "the death penalty" was brought into tbe conversation by an abortion advocate.

 

[creekdipper]

I am confused by the entire premise that a woman’s right to choose has an expiration date.

I read an opinion by an abortion advocate publshed in one of those "Opposing Viewpoints" collection in which the advocate...a professor, I believe...maintained that the line should be drawn at the time at which the born human can verbalize their feelings...somewhere between one and two years old.

 

[85SugarVol]

So if we have the suspect's confession, we have verifiable evidence such as DNA, video, fingerprints, murder weapon, victims' posessions, etc. plus we have eyewitness testimony, you still would have doubts as to the suspect's guilt? In that case, how could any suspect ever be convicted of any crime?

As to "not being related," I'm sure that "the death penalty" was brought into tbe conversation by an abortion advocate.

The standard for “guilt” is beyond a reasonable doubt. And we still get that wrong.
But I support that burden for guilt.

Yes. I do believe the standard for death should be no doubt.

But I am not willing to accept confessions, or eye witness testimony, or collections from law enforcement. All types of evidence that has convicted innocent men many times over.

 

[85SugarVol]

I read an opinion by an abortion advocate publshed in one of those "Opposing Viewpoints" collection in which the advocate...a professor, I believe...maintained that the line should be drawn at the time at which the born human can verbalize their feelings...somewhere between one and two years old.

I find that ridiculous

 

[creekdipper]

It isn't any of our *** **** business. I am getting sick of supposed libertarians on here going out of there way to support the state.

So life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness (the latter two are predicated upon the existence of the first) are simply meaningless words? "Just joking, folks. Do what you like...jungle law."

If you believe that what is being aborted is no different from a tumor or infected tooth, then it's none of our business (although there are other bodily issues society seems to have no problem with regulating).

If one believes that what is being terminated is a human being, it's not a great leap to see the argument that society had an interest...or even an obligation...to make it "our business."

 

[Vol423]

The standard for “guilt” is beyond a reasonable doubt. And we still get that wrong.
But I support that burden for guilt.

Yes. I do believe the standard for death should be no doubt.

But I am not willing to accept confessions, or eye witness testimony, or collections from law enforcement. All types of evidence that has convicted innocent men many times over.

So, no level of evidence is sufficient to convict anyone of any crime in your world. I'm assuming you're a proud member of the Democratic Party.

 

[creekdipper]

The standard for “guilt” is beyond a reasonable doubt. And we still get that wrong.
But I support that burden for guilt.

Yes. I do believe the standard for death should be no doubt.

But I am not willing to accept confessions, or eye witness testimony, or collections from law enforcement. All types of evidence that has convicted innocent men many times over.

Could you cite a single example in which a combination of all types of evidence has resulted in a death sentence being pronounced upon an innocent person? That would require a massive conspiracy to frame an innocent person including either a coerced or voluntary confession. Not saying that is impossible these days, but it seens highly unlikely considering the number of appeals, amicus briefs, innocence projects, etc. that would scrutinize every aspect of the case.

I'm not married to the death penalty due to its finality and inabity to undo any actual miscarriages of justice.

At the same time, I make a distinction between the truly innocent and the "wrongfully convicted." I'm sure that rights have been violated, inadequate representation provided, or gross violations of legal proceedings to tbe point that convictions should be overturned. That still does mean that the suspect didn't commit the crime.

O.J. Simpson was found to be "not guilty," but I'm not sure that a majority considers him to "innocent" of murder charges.

 

[hog88]

So, no level of evidence is sufficient to convict anyone of any crime in your world. I'm assuming you're a proud member of the Democratic Party.

That is not what he is saying. He is saying the standard to convict someone of any crime is no reasonable doubt and we still get it wrong. The problem with the death penalty is if we get it wrong and the sentence is carried out the state just killed an innocent person.