I've hesitated to post this thread, but someone has to speak out.

[SpaceCoastVol]

I am confused by those who object to abortion on the foundation that we are depriving unborn children of their right to life, but support our system of capital punishment.

Eric Boyd should not be killed. He should be locked in a 6x6 cell 23.5 hours/day for the rest of his life. ANd for that half hour he is allowed out he shouldn't see the sky nor have any chains removed from his limbs. Death penalty is way too lenient for 'people' like him.

 

[RikidyBones]

I look at like I do the WoDs. Completely banning the practice won’t stop it, just drive it back underground and cause more lives to be lost than saved. There needs to be a point in the pregnancy where abortion is no longer an option but I can’t say exactly when that is. Somewhere in the 5-8 week range.

Since you don't know, shouldn't caution be applied? At the end of the day, the victim with drugs is the self. The addicts consent to using.

The baby does not consent in dying.

 

[85SugarVol]

Eric Boyd should not be killed. He should be locked in a 6x6 cell 23.5 hours/day for the rest of his life. ANd for that half hour he is allowed out he shouldn't see the sky nor have any chains removed from his limbs. Death penalty is way too lenient for 'people' like him.

You mean Davidson?

Yea he’s a perfect example.

 

[luthervol]

It is two. It’s that simple. Based on this thread I’m sure your ear may identify as a lot of things but there are only two genders aside from physical birth defects. The rest is defined as mental illness.

All that proves is which definition of gender you are using.

 

[hog88]

Since you don't know, shouldn't caution be applied? At the end of the day, the victim with drugs is the self. The addicts consent to using.

The baby does not consent in dying.

All good points and I would rather the practice of abortion be nonresistant but that cats out of the bag, they're going to happen be it in a clinical setting or a back alley. I would rather the option of a clinical setting be available up until a predetermined time.

 

[85SugarVol]

Since you don't know, shouldn't caution be applied? At the end of the day, the victim with drugs is the self. The addicts consent to using.

The baby does not consent in dying.

No they don’t. It’s not fair.

 

[RikidyBones]

All good points and I would rather the practice of abortion be nonresistant but that cats out of the bag, they're going to happen be it in a clinical setting or a back alley. I would rather the option of a clinical setting be available up until a predetermined time.

Why? Do we want the practice of killing the unconsenting elderly to be normalized in a clinic for the chance that it won't be a more violent murder? I don't see a difference in preferring abortions in a clinic vs death penalty by the state because the perp may die on the street. Both are not consenting to death. The principle is no different imo.

 

[creekdipper]

All good points and I would rather the practice of abortion be nonresistant but that cats out of the bag, they're going to happen be it in a clinical setting or a back alley. I would rather the option of a clinical setting be available up until a predetermined time.

If an action is morally wrong, our main concern should be with protecting the potential victims rather than the safety of those who would perpetrate the act. We can have compassion and offer counseling and assistance for desperate people, but our assistance should stop short of enabling them to legally terminate a life. The depressed mother who drives her car into the river with her children inside may feel that is her only option, but society still does not condone her actions to the point of making it easier for her to take that drastic step to alleviate her problems. Not only do we not make it less risky for the mother, we actually punish the mother and convict her of a crime (or have her committed to a psychiatric institution).

 

[C-south]

All that proves is which definition of gender you are using.

There’s only one.

 

[creekdipper]

Same. Our system is fallible.

I have no moral objection to capital punishment (in a vacuum).
I have a moral objection to a system that gets it wrong.

It is the ultimate deprivation of liberty.

The question as to how pro-life people can also be in favor of the death penalty has many answers which are commonly discussed. The unborn child is innocent of any crime vs. the guilty adult. Private individuals commit abortions; the state carries out executions (as opposed to allowing for private acts of vengeance by the victims). Religious arguments also come into play although both sides have their own proof texts.

I believe most pro-life people, while disagreeing that the death penalty is morally wrong, would gladly trade the handful of executions that take place over decades for the millions of legal abortions. I have not found one pro-abortion person who would accept that trade. I also think most pro-life people recognize the potential for persons wrongfully convicted of capital offenses and/or wrongfully sentenced to death. I believe most pro-life people who favor capital punishment would reserve that sentence to those whose guilt has been determined beyond any doubt by a combination of physical evidence, confessions, and witness testimony.

 

[marcusluvsvols]

All that proves is which definition of gender you are using.

Dear Lord have mercy .


Loother i refuse to chase this rabbit with you...but liberals like you claim to be the "party of SCIENCE" which is embarrassing and so stupid on its face...but...

SCIENCE says 99.99% of people are born of the ONLY TWO genders. Male or female. It is easily observed at birth which gender/sex a human is....again Male or Female. * (we aint chasing rabbits named hermaphrodite/,vestigial sexual organs due to numerical % being almost zero...which is also a deformity/defect/mutation and not a gender/sex. Please .

After each human dies...and every human ever exhumed...scientists can and will look at a few bones and easily determine if the human was a Male or a Female. 2 sexes.

From birth until waaaaaay after death...humans are biologically one of 2 sexes . Male or Female.

Scientists (Doctors) have also clearly defined a mental illness which symptoms are when a biological male looks in a mirror and thinks they are in fact a female/ 17 new letters/etc . This condition is called Gender Dysphoria. It affects males and females. It is a diagnosed mental illness. That is science.

There are exactly 2 genders/sexes from birth til your bones are dust and they are Male and Female . To earnestly believe oneself is not actually what their established biological sex states that they are is a mental illness.

Its also just like anorexia by the way. Where a very skinny person looks in a mirror and truly sees a fat person that is not scientifically observable because they are, in fact, quite thin.

We do not encourage anorexia. We dont celebrate it or any other mental illness. Far more importantly....we DO NOT make up other genders/pronouns/ names for people with anorexia and THEN try to SHAME all of the sane, mentally sound "normal" humans who all still know and profess the truth (that there are exactly 2 genders) while throwing parades for the delusional....trying to "cancel" the sane who refuse the delusion. ..pass laws and try to teach innocent children that its "cool" to be anorexic or say you are "trans" or you identify as a stapler today instead of a male human.

This bullcrap is INSANE. It is VERY VERY scary that you are a TEACHER OF INNOCENT KIDS.

The Emperor wears no clothes.

Us sane folks will never, ever call a man "she/her/ze" or whatever mentally ill fictional BS the moonbat liberals try to force on us.

Parents who allow/encourage their kids/preteen/ non adult kids in this mental illness of gender dysphoria and similar or Heaven forbid allow and pay for hormones or surgeries to permanently disfigure their juvenile bodies should have the child taken from them. That is actual child abuse.

There are Doctors who post right here on VN that will attest to these facts and diagnoses...and know much more about the nuance and different versions of this mental illness than i ever will. For sure.

But if you are teaching impressionable kids that there are all these other fictional genders then you are also leading these kids astray and shame on you Loother. Come back to reality. I dont ever care what ANY 2 consenting adults do in their bedrooms. Note consenting and adults. ...but this movement nationwide to spread these lies about gender is evil and fictional and no sane adult should be a part of it .

Edit: i have posted probably 4 times in the last couple months. They are quite long. No need to read them folks unless truly interested or bored...lol

 

[creekdipper]

My point was there is NO MAGIC MOMENT.
How could my post have been taken any other way?

Fairly easily.

 

[creekdipper]

No there is not exact moment - and I don't think an exact moment exists.

That's why I have always maintained Roe vs. Wade is genius.

That's an oxymoron...unless you maintain that an entity can simultaneously be both human and non-human.

 

[creekdipper]

Because I think it would be a critical consideration for those who do believe in souls.
I don't see how anyone who believes in life after death (heaven/hell) could ever take that out of the equation.
It would (or at least should) be the paramount consideration.

Well, it should be a critical consideration, but those who believe life begins at conception should have no problem believing that the soul is imparted at that moment.

Similarly, those who believe in God's complete sovereignty over all things have no problem in allowing God to determine His elect. After all, He is God.

 

[zeppelin128]

I was under the impression that personal health care choices should be left to the individual on this board.

 

[luthervol]

There’s only one.

Not true. But that only serves to prove how black and white you view things.

 

[luthervol]

Dear Lord have mercy .


Loother i refuse to chase this rabbit with you...but liberals like you claim to be the "party of SCIENCE" which is embarrassing and so stupid on its face...but...

SCIENCE says 99.99% of people are born of the ONLY TWO genders. Male or female. It is easily observed at birth which gender/sex a human is....again Male or Female. * (we aint chasing rabbits named hermaphrodite/,vestigial sexual organs due to numerical % being almost zero...which is also a deformity/defect/mutation and not a gender/sex. Please .

After each human dies...and every human ever exhumed...scientists can and will look at a few bones and easily determine if the human was a Male or a Female. 2 sexes.

From birth until waaaaaay after death...humans are biologically one of 2 sexes . Male or Female.

Scientists (Doctors) have also clearly defined a mental illness which symptoms are when a biological male looks in a mirror and thinks they are in fact a female/ 17 new letters/etc . This condition is called Gender Dysphoria. It affects males and females. It is a diagnosed mental illness. That is science.

There are exactly 2 genders/sexes from birth til your bones are dust and they are Male and Female . To earnestly believe oneself is not actually what their established biological sex states that they are is a mental illness.

Its also just like anorexia by the way. Where a very skinny person looks in a mirror and truly sees a fat person that is not scientifically observable because they are, in fact, quite thin.

We do not encourage anorexia. We dont celebrate it or any other mental illness. Far more importantly....we DO NOT make up other genders/pronouns/ names for people with anorexia and THEN try to SHAME all of the sane, mentally sound "normal" humans who all still know and profess the truth (that there are exactly 2 genders) while throwing parades for the delusional....trying to "cancel" the sane who refuse the delusion. ..pass laws and try to teach innocent children that its "cool" to be anorexic or say you are "trans" or you identify as a stapler today instead of a male human.

This bullcrap is INSANE. It is VERY VERY scary that you are a TEACHER OF INNOCENT KIDS.

The Emperor wears no clothes.

Us sane folks will never, ever call a man "she/her/ze" or whatever mentally ill fictional BS the moonbat liberals try to force on us.

Parents who allow/encourage their kids/preteen/ non adult kids in this mental illness of gender dysphoria and similar or Heaven forbid allow and pay for hormones or surgeries to permanently disfigure their juvenile bodies should have the child taken from them. That is actual child abuse.

There are Doctors who post right here on VN that will attest to these facts and diagnoses...and know much more about the nuance and different versions of this mental illness than i ever will. For sure.

But if you are teaching impressionable kids that there are all these other fictional genders then you are also leading these kids astray and shame on you Loother. Come back to reality. I dont ever care what ANY 2 consenting adults do in their bedrooms. Note consenting and adults. ...but this movement nationwide to spread these lies about gender is evil and fictional and no sane adult should be a part of it .

Edit: i have posted probably 4 times in the last couple months. They are quite long. No need to read them folks unless truly interested or bored...lol

I didn't read it.....sorry.
I would like to see the definition of gender you are using.....I'll read and respond to that.

 

[luthervol]

Fairly easily.

For some evidently.

 

[luthervol]

That's an oxymoron...unless you maintain that an entity can simultaneously be both human and non-human.

View it like a cake.
When does a cake become a cake?
At the exact moment all of the ingredients are mixed.
When it's placed in the oven.
When it's taken out of the oven?
When the icing is applied?
If it's when all the ingredients are mixed, then you claim it is not a cake until the exact second the last ingredient is added.
But does that last ingredient need to be mixed in or is it a cake when the last ingredient is poured on top of the others. If it needs to be mixed in to reach cake status, how thoroughly, one stir? Two stirs? 20?
I view becoming a cake a process with no need to define an exact moment in time where it instantly transitions from being not a cake to being a cake.....it seems a pointlessly absurd endeavor.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

You mean Davidson?

Yea he’s a perfect example.

That whole crew. If I were the father I would meet the female the day she walked out of prison and shoot her straight up in the face as well.

 

[creekdipper]

View it like a cake.
When does a cake become a cake?
At the exact moment all of the ingredients are mixed.
When it's placed in the oven.
When it's taken out of the oven?
When the icing is applied?
If it's when all the ingredients are mixed, then you claim it is not a cake until the exact second the last ingredient is added.
But does that last ingredient need to be mixed in or is it a cake when the last ingredient is poured on top of the others. If it needs to be mixed in to reach cake status, how thoroughly, one stir? Two stirs? 20?
I view becoming a cake a process with no need to define an exact moment in time where it instantly transitions from being not a cake to being a cake.....it seems a pointlessly absurd endeavor.

You can mix all the ingredients and let the batter sit on the counter and it will never become anything more than cake batter.

Once the baking process has begun, it's a cake. That's why we say that we have a "cake" in the oven even though it's not finished baking. I have never heard someone say, "I have cake batter in the oven" during tbe cooking process. It's not an edible cake yet, but it's a cake. Not a pie. Not a brownie. Not a pot roast. By the way, we use similar expressions for those and other dishes, too, regardless of how far into the baking process we are.

A cake with icing is just a cake with icing.

 

[creekdipper]

For some evidently.

It's like optical illusions. Some see them right away, while others will never see them regardless of how hard they try.

 

[85SugarVol]

The question as to how pro-life people can also be in favor of the death penalty has many answers which are commonly discussed. The unborn child is innocent of any crime vs. the guilty adult. Private individuals commit abortions; the state carries out executions (as opposed to allowing for private acts of vengeance by the victims). Religious arguments also come into play although both sides have their own proof texts.

I believe most pro-life people, while disagreeing that the death penalty is morally wrong, would gladly trade the handful of executions that take place over decades for the millions of legal abortions. I have not found one pro-abortion person who would accept that trade. I also think most pro-life people recognize the potential for persons wrongfully convicted of capital offenses and/or wrongfully sentenced to death. I believe most pro-life people who favor capital punishment would reserve that sentence to those whose guilt has been determined beyond any doubt by a combination of physical evidence, confessions, and witness testimony.

What? Trade executions for abortions? A “handful”?

What are you trying to say here?

Your last sentence is woefully ignorant, and/or naive

 

[luthervol]

You can mix all the ingredients and let the batter sit on the counter and it will never become anything more than cake batter.

Once the baking process has begun, it's a cake. That's why we say that we have a "cake" in the oven even though it's not finished baking. I have never heard someone say, "I have cake batter in the oven" during tbe cooking process. It's not an edible cake yet, but it's a cake. Not a pie. Not a brownie. Not a pot roast. By the way, we use similar expressions for those and other dishes, too, regardless of how far into the baking process we are.

A cake with icing is just a cake with icing.

So the instant you place the cake pan in the oven the ingredients become a cake? (in name only-it is obviously still just cake batter)
Do you have to let go of the pan first or is it a cake as soon as the pan is inside of the oven? If you have to let go of it first, is it a cake before you shut the oven door or do you have to shut the oven door first? If you remove the cake as soon as you put it in the oven, does it go back to being called cake batter?

But according to you, all of the ingredients necessary for the creation of a separate and unique cake does not make it a cake - only the baking process makes it a cake
All of the ingredients necessary (DNA) for a separate human would not make a separate human - only the "baking" process.
So an egg fertilized outside of the womb would not constitute the same level of human as an egg fertilized inside the womb?
And what is the equivalent of the beginning of the baking process for humans?
A fertilized egg? (that would be the batter) Attachment to the uterine wall?

 

[85SugarVol]

That whole crew. If I were the father I would meet the female the day she walked out of prison and shoot her straight up in the face as well.

They were a truly depraved bunch.