I've hesitated to post this thread, but someone has to speak out.

[NurseGoodVol]

About 25% make it to the six-week mark.

Why is that?

 

[Wireless1]

There is no single magic moment that separates individual human from not.
To claim otherwise is stupid.
Some claim it's when the baby is birthed, some claim it's at the point when an egg is fertilized by a sperm.
I find them equally indefensible positions.
I think most reasonable people would admit that a newly delivered baby is just a tad more human than a zygote.
Which means there is a developmental process......or a continuum if you will.
Roe vs. Wade was genius in the way they addressed this.

This line of thinking put Jews in concentration camps. Continuums are very dangerous. Will special needs children fall somewhere? A child or adult that has a brain injury? Does the government or their caregiver get to choose? Pretty amazing to me that this one medical procedure gets a complete pass. Remind me again how long Gosnell "practiced" after the first complaints before he was brought to trial.

 

[GroverCleveland]

You sound just like the slave owners did when they were discussing why they had to right to murder black kids back then too.

Not fully human, right…..

So slave owners sat around talking about this all the time? Do we have recordings? Emails or tweets perhaps?

 

[GroverCleveland]

They’re not telling a city or state how to legislate, only that they’ll choose to do business elsewhere based on how a particular city or state legislates.

No different than people here advocating boycotting Nike or Adidas for political reasons, or LGBT activists boycotting Chick Fil’A based on its founder’s religious beliefs.

Boy, that has worked out well. So well, they go to raising cane with their local governments to prevent Chic-Fil-A from being able to build at all! Wait, so they're not boycotting in that case...

 

[Wireless1]

So slave owners sat around talking about this all the time? Do we have recordings? Emails or tweets perhaps?

They were smart, only SnapChat so everything is gone......

 

[Lawrence Wright]

Boy, that has worked out well. So well, they go to raising cane with their local governments to prevent Chic-Fil-A from being able to build at all! Wait, so they're not boycotting in that case...

It’s worked about as well as the Church Lady writing letters to Sports Illustrated complaining about the annual swimsuit edition.

 

[NEO]

So slave owners sat around talking about this all the time? Do we have recordings? Emails or tweets perhaps?

Google “Keziah Goodwyn Hopkins Brevard.” She was a widowed plantation owner. Her diary made it perfectly clear and was the recordings of her day. There are multiple others and they all had the same mindset.

 

[NEO]

Nice non-answer.
Understandable.
But I'm all on board with the "magic" of the first trimester.
In case anyone missed it the first 50 times, Roe vs. Wade was genius.

I answered. You just aren’t educated enough to grasp it.

 

[sjt18]

Republicans should have thought about that before sponsoring Citizens United and subsequent corresponding legislation. Tough to put that paste back in the tube.

Citizens united didn't have anything to do with public monopolies discriminating against various points of view. It didn't relate to an organization whose members were mostly made up of government institutions. Citizens United was about allowing corporations the right to engage equally in the political sphere since legislation directly impacts them. Previous, under McCain-Feingold entities that support the left like labor unions were allowed to participate but those that tend to support the right were not.

Saying that the NCAA DISCRIMINATING against a state because of its laws or policies (the product of the views of its citizens) on a subject WHOLLY unrelated to sports competition parallels Citizens United is pretty ridiculous.

 

[GroverCleveland]

I’m shocked that the libs aren’t trying to vaccinate the fetus before killing it. That’s the sort of science that they are known for.

Be careful or the mayor of New York is going to insist they wear masks when mom is out in public.

 

[NEO]

Thanks for clarifying.
You may have forgotten about the Founding Fathers....but you reside completely in the realm of convenient thought.

So are you stating that a zygote is as human as a newly delivered baby? Simple yes or no question.
I'll give you my answer......NO, they are not remotely equal.
Your turn.

The zygote is an embryo in the fertilization stage that is the beginning of human life.

I am not against the day after pill though. I am against abortion past the first trimester.

Are you?

 

[NEO]

If you don’t touch the zygote or interfere with it what does it become?

Bingo!

 

[NEO]

About 25% make it to the six-week mark.

And those 25 percent become…….

 

[OHvol40]

Citizens united didn't have anything to do with public monopolies discriminating against various points of view. It didn't relate to an organization whose members were mostly made up of government institutions. Citizens United was about allowing corporations the right to engage equally in the political sphere since legislation directly impacts them. Previous, under McCain-Feingold entities that support the left like labor unions were allowed to participate but those that tend to support the right were not.

Saying that the NCAA DISCRIMINATING against a state because of its laws or policies (the product of the views of its citizens) on a subject WHOLLY unrelated to sports competition parallels Citizens United is pretty ridiculous.

It set the precedent that corporations have the same rights as individuals. I see slippery-slope mindsets from conservatives in here all the time, well, here is your case study.

 

[GroverCleveland]

Google “Keziah Goodwyn Hopkins Brevard.” She was a widowed plantation owner. Her diary made it perfectly clear and was the recordings of her day. There are multiple others and they all had the same mindset.

I've read some excerpts from her diary, and although admittedly, excerpts are all they are, nothing in them indicates this topic preoccupied her mind. She actually seems to be a quite moral person for that time in history and wished South Carolina had not seceded. Again, I freely admit I do not have a full reading of the diary to judge from.

However, it begs the question as to why a slave owner would willingly kill a valuable asset on a whim. Just to prevent any moran from thinking I condone slavery, I do not. The context is entirely within the period of history being discussed.

 

[GroverCleveland]

And those 25 percent become…….

Well, apparently the newest member of the Supreme Court may not be sure on that subject.

 

[Sandman 423]

About 25% make it to the six-week mark.

What do they call the rate of zygotes that don/t make it?

Also, I believe it is 25% that don't make it. 75% do.

 

[Wireless1]

I've read some excerpts from her diary, and although admittedly, excerpts are all they are, nothing in them indicates this topic preoccupied her mind. She actually seems to be a quite moral person for that time in history and wished South Carolina had not seceded. Again, I freely admit I do not have a full reading of the diary to judge from.

However, it begs the question as to why a slave owner would willingly kill a valuable asset on a whim. Just to prevent any moran from thinking I condone slavery, I do not. The context is entirely within the period of history being discussed.

Have you watched Yellowstone? I think the debate was whether taking a "problem" to the Train Station was illegal or since it was a slave, just taking care of business.

 

[NEO]

I've read some excerpts from her diary, and although admittedly, excerpts are all they are, nothing in them indicates this topic preoccupied her mind. She actually seems to be a quite moral person for that time in history and wished South Carolina had not seceded. Again, I freely admit I do not have a full reading of the diary to judge from.

However, it begs the question as to why a slave owner would willingly kill a valuable asset on a whim. Just to prevent any moran from thinking I condone slavery, I do not. The context is entirely within the period of history being discussed.

From the papers I have read the majority viewed them subhuman and actually thought they were doing Gods work by enslaving them. Either that or they morally convinced themselves of it to cope.

The issue I have is whenever any society or part of society begins to question who is truly human with human rights it always ends up the same way.

My stance has always been the same: Jim Crowe effectively ended 1964, Rowe vs Wade passed 1973 within 10 years with actual SCJ (not part of the actual case) RBG stating she initially viewed it as minority population control, and almost all planned parenthood clinics are located in inner city poorer areas.

I have very few issues with abortion prior to the first trimester or if the woman’s life is in danger but past that it’s murder. I also feel we need to do a major overhaul on education (as seen by our residing school teachers) so that better choices are made due to cognitive reasoning.

 

[sjt18]

It set the precedent that corporations have the same rights as individuals. I see slippery-slope mindsets from conservatives in here all the time, well, here is your case study.

LOL... what slippery slope? That corporations AND individuals shouldn't be at a disadvantage to left wing labor unions?


And again you are attempting a clear orange vs apple comparison here. A corporation making a contribution to a political party or cause that DIRECTLY governs their activities isn't the same as an effective government run monopoly WHOLLY discriminating against a state and its people over a controversial social issue that has absolutely NOTHING to do with athletic competition. Please tell us you see how your comparison does not work.

 

[OHvol40]

LOL... what slippery slope? That corporations AND individuals shouldn't be at a disadvantage to left wing labor unions?


And again you are attempting a clear orange vs apple comparison here. A corporation making a contribution to a political party or cause that DIRECTLY governs their activities isn't the same as an effective government run monopoly WHOLLY discriminating against a state and its people over a controversial social issue that has absolutely NOTHING to do with athletic competition. Please tell us you see how your comparison does not work.

I stopped reading when you invoked the labor union boogie man. I understand your stance, thanks.

 

[sjt18]

From the papers I have read the majority viewed them subhuman and actually thought they were doing Gods work by enslaving them. Either that or they morally convinced themselves of it to cope.

The issue I have is whenever any society or part of society begins to question who is truly human with human rights it always ends up the same way.

My stance has always been the same: Jim Crowe effectively ended 1964, Rowe vs Wade passed 1973 within 10 years with actual SCJ (not part of the actual case) RBG stating she initially viewed it as minority population control, and almost all planned parenthood clinics are located in inner city poorer areas.

I have very few issues with abortion prior to the first trimester or if the woman’s life is in danger but past that it’s murder. I also feel we need to do a major overhaul on education (as seen by our residing school teachers) so that better choices are made due to cognitive reasoning.

It is a mistake to paint slavery with a broad brush. There were vastly different ideas and attitudes across regions and time periods. People in Virginia and Maryland viewed slaves much different than people in Mississippi and Alabama.

Thanks for fleshing out the racist element of abortion btw.

 

[sjt18]

I stopped reading when you invoked the labor union boogie man. I understand your stance, thanks.

No boogeyman. But you have now made YOUR stance clear. You want a law that enables those you agree with to gain an advantage in campaign financing regardless of anyone else's right for fair representation and redress of grievance.

Are you denying that McCain-Feingold exempted labor unions from the restrictions placed on other entities including corporations? It specifically left unions fully able to finance and run "ground game" activities for their favored candidates.

 

[GroverCleveland]

Have you watched Yellowstone? I think the debate was whether taking a "problem" to the Train Station was illegal or since it was a slave, just taking care of business.

Oh, yes. Liked it until Season 4.

Yes, this discussion got off the tracks a bit. Was it legal? I honestly do not know, but if so, it probably was/would have been treated the same as extra-legal lynchings, which were nothing more than than a mob killing someone and no one prosecuted. I've read a substantial amount on that period of our history and never saw anything that came close to describing this as a broad topic of discussion. It always bothers me when someone picks some obscure topic and implies it was a substantial topic for discussion decades/centuries ago. It would be like me proclaiming that Romans in the decades around 200 A.D. were heavily involved in staph infection discussions, because a couple of writings were found mentioning it.

Yeah, a "get off my lawn" moment, wasn't it?

 

[GroverCleveland]

From the papers I have read the majority viewed them subhuman and actually thought they were doing Gods work by enslaving them. Either that or they morally convinced themselves of it to cope.

The issue I have is whenever any society or part of society begins to question who is truly human with human rights it always ends up the same way.

My stance has always been the same: Jim Crowe effectively ended 1964, Rowe vs Wade passed 1973 within 10 years with actual SCJ (not part of the actual case) RBG stating she initially viewed it as minority population control, and almost all planned parenthood clinics are located in inner city poorer areas.

I have very few issues with abortion prior to the first trimester or if the woman’s life is in danger but past that it’s murder. I also feel we need to do a major overhaul on education (as seen by our residing school teachers) so that better choices are made due to cognitive reasoning.

Pretty much agree with you on RvW. And you'll probably see another post of mine on our back and forth, but I think it is a tenuous connection to use attitudes towards slavery as an analogy towards abortion thoughts. We can agree to disagree on that.