Jameis Winston (FSU) merged

#576
#576
davethevol said:
She may have been raped, but it seems common for girls that have been caught cheating to claim rape after the fact. I have a hard time believing she left the bar with him not expecting to hook up with him. Regardless, it's an unfortunate situation.
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Since false claims of rape are very uncommon, you're entire conclusion falls apart at the premise.
 
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#577
#577
bamawriter said:
Since false claims of rape are very uncommon, you're entire conclusion falls apart at the premise.
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Pretty sure most false rape claims never make it to the media. Would be awful to put someone on blast for rape, when it was fishy from the get go...just saying...

I dont think you will get true stats on false rape claims...

Just like you dont hear of all the false 911 calls that happen daily.
 
#578
#578
Tennkook said:
Pretty sure most false rape claims never make it to the media. Would be awful to put someone on blast for rape, when it was fishy from the get go...just saying...

I dont think you will get true stats on false rape claims...

Just like you dont hear of all the false 911 calls that happen daily.
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Most rape claims never make the media, false or legit. It generally takes the involvement of a notable person, or a particularly heinous crime for the media to pick it up.

That said, the FBI's numbers put false claims of rape at 12% on the high end, and 7% on the low. And rape victims are the least likely victims of any crime to actually go to the authorities.
 
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#579
#579
bamawriter said:
Since false claims of rape are very uncommon, you're entire conclusion falls apart at the premise.
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Based on the circumstances, it lends credence to a rape not having occurred. Anytime a rape story becomes a major news story, I become a little suspicious. Duke lacrosse, Tashawna Bradley, etc...
 
#580
#580
bamawriter said:
Most rape claims never make the media, false or legit. It generally take the involvement of a notable person, or a particularly heinous crime for the media to pick it up.

That said, the FBI's numbers put false claims of rape at 12% on the high end, and 7% on the low. And rape victims are the least likely victims of any crime to actually go to the authorities.
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I am with you on that last bit. And that is a truly sad thing.
 
#582
#582
gunner said:
If you prefer to get your information regarding the Investigation into the activities of Winston from legal documents rather than rumors or message boards, I suggest the link below.

http://www.tallahassee.com/interact...8/View-Jameis-Winston-investigation-documents
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Gunner, I believe you said you were an LEO. What do you think about the victim's friend Monique Kessler. This is the one that the victim says one of the guys told her to call. She tried several times to talk to Monique after and they had an exchange about whether or not she had her ID card. The police reports (which wow) mention Kessler would not respond to attempts for interview. This was the only friend that seemed to just drop out of things -- the victim could get ahold of others that night but Monique goes AWOL at times and then AWOL in the investigations.

I have a feeling that Kessler knows something she didn't want to reveal and is maybe even guilty/or at least feels guilty of setting a friend up for a bad situation... She was the one the victim originally went out with that night and I just can't fathom how she suddenly drops out of the picture.
 
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#583
#583
UTProf said:
Gunner, I believe you said you were an LEO. What do you think about the victim's friend Monique Kessler. This is the one that the victim says one of the guys told her to call. She tried several times to talk to Monique after and they had an exchange about whether or not she had her ID card. The police reports (which wow) mention Kessler would not respond to attempts for interview. This was the only friend that seemed to just drop out of things -- the victim could get ahold of others that night but Monique goes AWOL at times and then AWOL in the investigations.

I have a feeling that Kessler knows something she didn't want to reveal and is maybe even guilty/or at least feels guilty of setting a friend up for a bad situation... She was the one the victim originally went out with that night and I just can't fathom how she suddenly drops out of the picture.
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It's difficult to say regarding Kessler without having interviewed her, but from what I read she wanted no involvement with the police. And, unless I missed it in the reports or its not documented the police made very little effort to find her.

It could be something as simple as she was involved with the underaged drinking and was afraid to talk to the police because of that. But's that's just speculation on my part.
 
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#584
#584
gunner said:
It's difficult to say regarding Kessler without having interviewed her, but from what I read she wanted no involvement with the police. And, unless I missed it in the reports or its not documented the police made very little effort to find her.

It could be something as simple as she was involved with the underaged drinking and was afraid to talk to the police because of that. But's that's just speculation on my part.
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Well Monique, the victim, and Marcus were all involved in underage consumption and while I can understand a kid's fear over that, in a case like this the cops turning around and going after them for that would be highly unlikely. I don't see a rape investigation going after a college kid who might've used a fake id or who admits consumption, especially when you're admitting to it after the fact. But to be fair, the way TPD handled this who knows? I've never read such lousy police work that included several obvious points of CYA.

The report Angulo writes in February describes his initial interview with the victim at the hospital (early morning hours of Dec. 7th) and the followup hours later (afternoon December 7th) both times he says the victim is unsure about charges yet he's describing December 7th initial interviews when the victim doesn't even know who the attacker is or where it took place. It's a bit premature for "doesn't know if she wants to press charges" to be inserted in there after each part of the Dec. 7th interview written Feb and for that same Feb. report her to call him in January 10th leaving a voicemail saying she thinks she knows who the attacker is. He waits a day to call her back and at the same time on claims Jan 11th not only does the victim's aunt/lawyer takeovers and Angulo again says the victim is unsure (is that why she called with his identity?). Also after she tells him the name, Jameis Winston is contacted and says he has baseball practice and will call later.

The next day attorney Tim Jansen appears at TPD and is "given enough detail so that Winston would be able to recall the incident" and after being given all that detail Jansen says it wouldn't be in his client's interest to give a statement -- ya think?!

In that same Feb. report, even though the victim does not know the name of the building she gives a detailed enough description of the building in the Dec. 7th interviews that it should've been more than enough for a TPD officer to pretty easily know the location she was describing. She also describes her attacker as having "asian looking eyes" and 6'2' and both the victim and Monique have already mentioned a linebacker named Chris. Now, TPD had just been to Jameis Winston's and Chris Casher's apartment on Nov. 27, 2012 to investigate a series of BB gun shootings. And yet less than 2 weeks later on December 7th, knowing a freshman football player, a linebacker named Chris was at least spoken to that night (as both Monique and the victim attest) and that Chris Casher has a roommate named Jamies Winston who very much fits the description the TPD doesn't at least question Casher as a witness regarding what he saw at Potbelly's and who the victim might've left with? They don't at least get a hunch that Winston might be involved somehow or that Casher is at least someone to question about events at the bar? Not to mention she was dropped off using a scooter and scooters and FSU football players go hand in hand.

Good Lord. TPD comes across as making the Keystone Cops and old Pinkerton Detective Agency as bastions of competence and integrity.
 
#585
#585
UTProf said:
Well Monique, the victim, and Marcus were all involved in underage consumption and while I can understand a kid's fear over that, in a case like this the cops turning around and going after them for that would be highly unlikely. I don't see a rape investigation going after a college kid who might've used a fake id or who admits consumption, especially when you're admitting to it after the fact. But to be fair, the way TPD handled this who knows? I've never read such lousy police work that included several obvious points of CYA.

The report Angulo writes in February describes his initial interview with the victim at the hospital (early morning hours of Dec. 7th) and the followup hours later (afternoon December 7th) both times he says the victim is unsure about charges yet he's describing December 7th initial interviews when the victim doesn't even know who the attacker is or where it took place. It's a bit premature for "doesn't know if she wants to press charges" to be inserted in there after each part of the Dec. 7th interview written Feb and for that same Feb. report her to call him in January 10th leaving a voicemail saying she thinks she knows who the attacker is. He waits a day to call her back and at the same time on claims Jan 11th not only does the victim's aunt/lawyer takeovers and Angulo again says the victim is unsure (is that why she called with his identity?). Also after she tells him the name, Jameis Winston is contacted and says he has baseball practice and will call later.

The next day attorney Tim Jansen appears at TPD and is "given enough detail so that Winston would be able to recall the incident" and after being given all that detail Jansen says it wouldn't be in his client's interest to give a statement -- ya think?!

In that same Feb. report, even though the victim does not know the name of the building she gives a detailed enough description of the building in the Dec. 7th interviews that it should've been more than enough for a TPD officer to pretty easily know the location she was describing. She also describes her attacker as having "asian looking eyes" and 6'2' and both the victim and Monique have already mentioned a linebacker named Chris. Now, TPD had just been to Jameis Winston's and Chris Casher's apartment on Nov. 27, 2012 to investigate a series of BB gun shootings. And yet less than 2 weeks later on December 7th, knowing a freshman football player, a linebacker named Chris was at least spoken to that night (as both Monique and the victim attest) and that Chris Casher has a roommate named Jamies Winston who very much fits the description the TPD doesn't at least question Casher as a witness regarding what he saw at Potbelly's and who the victim might've left with? They don't at least get a hunch that Winston might be involved somehow or that Casher is at least someone to question about events at the bar? Not to mention she was dropped off using a scooter and scooters and FSU football players go hand in hand.

Good Lord. TPD comes across as making the Keystone Cops and old Pinkerton Detective Agency as bastions of competence and integrity.
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UTProf,

I understand all of your concerns with the way the TPD handled this case, and without being too critical of another law enforcement agency or their investigation, I will just say, I hope that all of their investigations of this nature aren't handled in this manner.

If the investigation had been completed as soon as possible after the initial complaint, it is my belief that there would have been enough evidence through witness testimony to prosecute this case.

As for the underage drinking, that isn't what the police were called to investigate so it's very doubtful they would charge that in this case, but the college kids don't know that. Again, that could have been the reason she didn't make herself availible for questioning.
 
#586
#586
gunner said:
UTProf,

I understand all of your concerns with the way the TPD handled this case, and without being too critical of another law enforcement agency or their investigation, I will just say, I hope that all of their investigations of this nature aren't handled in this manner.

If the investigation had been completed as soon as possible after the initial complaint, it is my belief that there would have been enough evidence through witness testimony to prosecute this case.
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I agree and personally if I were a citizen of Tallahassee I would be terrified at the thoughts of this being SOP for a rape investigation. I'd much rather believe that this was a case of Angulo doing this on his own because he was either a superfan or grossly incompetent because that's easy to fix with a single firing. That's much more comforting than other possibilities but everything about what's happened and how this has been handled stinks.

Even down to FSU AD Monk Bonasorte directing FSU-PD to direct anything from TPD to him and him showing up to greet TPD, who had told FSU-PD they were coming Nov. 13, and upon arrival on Nov. 14th to interview Casher and Darby were informed by AD Bonasorte TPD that Winston's attorney Tim Jansen had secured representation for witnesses Casher and Darby. Mr. Jansen was so hard at work that that representation had managed to write up affidavits for both witnesses signed and notarized on Nov. 13th (the very day TPD informed FSU-PD that they'd be interviewing on campus the 14th to interview them).

Regardless of what anyone thinks of Winston's guilt or innocence, the handling of this case by several parties should be outrage inducing, cause serious questions to be raised, and heads to roll.

As for the underage drinking, that isn't what the police were called to investigate so it's very doubtful they would charge that in this case, but the college kids don't know that. Again, that could have been the reason she didn't make herself availible for questioning.
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True. And it's not like they were too great at keeping up with witnesses either.
 
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#587
#587
UTProf said:
I agree and personally if I were a citizen of Tallahassee I would be terrified at the thoughts of this being SOP for a rape investigation. I'd much rather believe that this was a case of Angulo doing this on his own because he was either a superfan or grossly incompetent because that's easy to fix with a single firing. That's much more comforting than other possibilities but everything about what's happened and how this has been handled stinks.

Even down to FSU AD Monk Bonasorte directing FSU-PD to direct anything from TPD to him and him showing up to greet TPD, who had told FSU-PD they were coming Nov. 13, and upon arrival on Nov. 14th to interview Casher and Darby were informed by AD Bonasorte TPD that Winston's attorney Tim Jansen had secured representation for witnesses Casher and Darby. Mr. Jansen was so hard at work that that representation had managed to write up affidavits for both witnesses signed and notarized on Nov. 13th (the very day TPD informed FSU-PD that they'd be interviewing on campus the 14th to interview them).

Regardless of what anyone thinks of Winston's guilt or innocence, the handling of this case by several parties should be outrage inducing, cause serious questions to be raised, and heads to roll.



True. And it's not like they were too great at keeping up with witnesses either.
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Even more so guys should be scared of ho's like the accuser. Be careful who you pick up at a bar or wherever & if possible have witnesses. Beware if you have money or you're an good athlete. Justice doesn't always prevail.
 
#588
#588
utprof said:
i agree and personally if i were a citizen of tallahassee i would be terrified at the thoughts of this being sop for a rape investigation. I'd much rather believe that this was a case of angulo doing this on his own because he was either a superfan or grossly incompetent because that's easy to fix with a single firing. That's much more comforting than other possibilities but everything about what's happened and how this has been handled stinks.

Even down to fsu ad monk bonasorte directing fsu-pd to direct anything from tpd to him and him showing up to greet tpd, who had told fsu-pd they were coming nov. 13, and upon arrival on nov. 14th to interview casher and darby were informed by ad bonasorte tpd that winston's attorney tim jansen had secured representation for witnesses casher and darby. Mr. Jansen was so hard at work that that representation had managed to write up affidavits for both witnesses signed and notarized on nov. 13th (the very day tpd informed fsu-pd that they'd be interviewing on campus the 14th to interview them).

Regardless of what anyone thinks of winston's guilt or innocence, the handling of this case by several parties should be outrage inducing, cause serious questions to be raised, and heads to roll.



True. And it's not like they were too great at keeping up with witnesses either.
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this!
 
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#589
#589
govols/cc said:
Even more so guys should be scared of ho's like the accuser. Be careful who you pick up at a bar or wherever & if possible have witnesses. Beware if you have money or you're an good athlete. Justice doesn't always prevail.
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Oh no. It's critical that you be a good athlete. Otherwise the cops might actually investigate. And that's a huge inconvenience.
 
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#593
#593
I guess what bugs me the most about the whole thing is, other than the rape kit and minor interviews, no true attempts were made to investigate until a year after the alleged rape. The cab driver can't be located, the security camera tapes at the bar were taped over on a 30 day loop, text messages and phone numbers were no longer on phones, etc., etc., I also never heard of a potential suspect in any crime being able to say that he doesn't want to be interviewed by police...not that he wants his lawyer present...he doesn't want to be interviewed...so he isn't.

I don't know any of these people; I don't know what happened that night but I do know that any evidence that could corroborate either side seems to be no longer accessible - a year after the night in question.
 
#594
#594
Majorvol23 said:
Glad this is happening - Investigation has obviously been a joke and it's sad really that people have just stood by and shrugged it off
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It needs to be done. I realize rape is one of things that is so awful to think about that it makes a whole lot of people want to put their heads in the sand rather than deal with it but this is something you can't hide from in good conscience if you've read the case files.

If they do get an independent investigation, it will be the best thing that could happen for all involved. Although I think Jansen has done wonders working TPD and the DA and may have made it so that it can't be tried independent investigators can find out how that happened and why.

The sad thing is it shouldn't take the victim having an aunt who happens to be a lawyer to move things forward like this. Outcry should've demanded it already.

TPD, FSU, and the DA had the appearance of being too close to this case all along and that's never a good thing.
 
#595
#595
Majorvol23 said:
Glad this is happening - Investigation has obviously been a joke and it's sad really that people have just stood by and shrugged it off
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What was there to investigate now that was different than a year ago? The girl's story was all over the map then & apparently it still is. Kinda odd of the timing to all of a sudden cry rape when if there was a true crime it should've been adamantly pursued THEN. A person once told me when you put yourself in "messed" up situations "messed" up things happen.
 
#596
#596
govols/cc said:
Kinda odd of the timing to all of a sudden cry rape when if there was a true crime it should've been adamantly pursued THEN.
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She reported it within a couple of hours of the incident. A rape kit was performed and her statement was recorded. If, to your point, it wasn't "adamantly pursued THEN", isn't that on the cops?
 
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#597
#597
govols/cc said:
What was there to investigate now that was different than a year ago? The girl's story was all over the map then & apparently it still is. Kinda odd of the timing to all of a sudden cry rape when if there was a true crime it should've been adamantly pursued THEN. A person once told me when you put yourself in "messed" up situations "messed" up things happen.
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The accuser's attorney told the police department to get Winston's DNA, and he said "No," because he didn't want it to go public - instead, he gets a search warrant on the accuser to investigate her mobile phone records, etc.

The investigation wasn't done properly because it was Jameis Winston - it's wrong
 
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#598
#598
govols/cc said:
What was there to investigate now that was different than a year ago? The girl's story was all over the map then & apparently it still is. Kinda odd of the timing to all of a sudden cry rape when if there was a true crime it should've been adamantly pursued THEN. A person once told me when you put yourself in "messed" up situations "messed" up things happen.
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I'm not sure where you're getting that except from media outlets and Jansen's press conferences rather than reading the case documents. Her story is pretty damn consistent. There are holes in it because she doesn't recall everything but it is consistent.

The odd timing had to do with TPD literally being pushed into doing a thing. They were going to let die in a drawer. His name was given to them in January and they still delayed until November and tipped off the attorney when they did move forward. If you can't see why that's problematic then maybe you're too caught up in the "all women are lying women angle." Drop it for a second, clear your mind of guilt or innocence and Jameis himself and it's rather easy to see what a clusteruck TPD and other made of this case.
 
#600
#600
Majorvol23 said:
The accuser's attorney told the police department to get Winston's DNA, and he said "No," because he didn't want it to go public - instead, he gets a search warrant on the accuser to investigate her mobile phone records, etc.

The investigation wasn't done properly because it was Jameis Winston - it's wrong
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Winston was a nobody then. He's a somebody & the "story" suddenly comes back.
 
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