January 5th Insurrection (Kazakhstan)

[midnight orange]

You are insane. Giving the Nazis and Japanese regimes supplies to carry out their atrocities isn’t just “overlooking” a small civil war genocide somewhere. It’s being complicit in a world wide one. And without US and Russia the Axis would’ve easily defeated the Allies

The Soviets were carrying out atrocities equal to if not worse than the Nazis and we were arming them to the hilt. In fact, Soviet lend-lease equipment was given priority over US Pacific theatre operations. Read Bloodlands by Timothy Snyder.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You are insane. Giving the Nazis and Japanese regimes supplies to carry out their atrocities isn’t just “overlooking” a small civil war genocide somewhere. It’s being complicit in a world wide one. And without US and Russia the Axis would’ve easily defeated the Allies

It only became world wide once everybody started jumping in due to all of these military alliances. There was no immediate (or practical) threat to the United States by either Germany or Japan.

And you also underestimate the energy and resources it would have taken Japan and Germany to maintain these newly conquered lands (assuming The Axis Powers would have been as successful as you claim). They would have been dealing with insurgencies and resistance groups all over the place. The last thing they would have been able to handle would have been to cross an ocean and mount a serious campaign against mainland United States. A few Aleutian Islands or a hit and run attack on Pearl Harbor? Maybe.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

They were until they traded their empire to be a protectorate to Poland. FDR basically swindled the empire from Churchill as a result of the war and as a result became the world’s most powerful nation.
The USSR conquered half of Europe and Asia and picked up where Hitler left off.

True. Churchill was not liking the direction things were heading for The Empire near the conclusion of the war.

And we didn't necessarily grab British Empire lands, what we did is ended Britain's near 200 year dominance as the global navy and we took their place.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

It only became world wide once everybody started jumping in due to all of these military alliances. There was no immediate (or practical) threat to the United States by either Germany or Japan.

And you also underestimate the energy and resources it would have taken Japan and Germany to maintain these newly conquered lands (assuming The Axis Powers would have been as successful as you claim). They would have been dealing with insurgencies and resistance groups all over the place. The last thing they would have been able to handle would have been to cross an ocean and mount a serious campaign against mainland United States. A few Aleutian Islands or a hit and run attack on Pearl Harbor? Maybe.

You believe the US getting involved in WWII was a mistake? Don’t care either way just want to clarify.

 

[midnight orange]

True. Churchill was not liking the direction things were heading for The Empire near the conclusion of the war.

And we didn't necessarily grab British Empire lands, what we did is ended Britain's near 200 year dominance as the global navy and we took their place.

I’m not sure what Churchill thought was going to happen. He seems to have been naive or in outright in denial on the nature of the USSR. The British made their last lend-lease payment in 2006. The USSR paid .02 on the dollar. Never lend money to a commie.

 

[Burhead]

Haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else yet but something to keep an eye on. Could be setting the stage for Crimea 2.0

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You believe the US getting involved in WWII was a mistake? Don’t care either way just want to clarify.

Yes

 

[hog88]

Got a book for you Raz if you haven’t read it yet. Stalin’s War by by Sean McMeekin. It summarizes Stalins antics as a partner in crime with Hitler and Stalins successful maneuvering to get the western powers at war with each other. Also about FDR and Churchill interacting with Stalin and basically giving him everything he wanted even though he had little to at times nonexistent leverage. FDR and Churchill to a lesser degree come off like absolute schoolgirls vying for Stalin’s affection.

FDR 100X more so than Churchill, FDR was enamored by Stalin. The cold war is a direct result of FDRs schoolgirl crush on Stalin.

 

[NEO]

How could WW2 been “easily averted”. The rest I agree with

The Nazi regime was a slow burn.

If we had not been an isolationist country due to WW1 we could have easily seen it.

Instead of creating an enemy with Japan we could have instead created an ally. The oil embargo was us taunting them into war.

I can’t say for certain it would have been possible to completely avert it but we could have had a stronger alliance with Poland and France and better protected them so the dominos never started falling.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

FDR 100X more so than Churchill, FDR was enamored by Stalin. The cold war is a direct result of FDRs schoolgirl crush on Stalin.

Meh, that is hard to say. Who knows how things would have been had FDR survived.

 

[NEO]

"We", as in the US? I give that a 10-20% likelihood.

If I had my money on it, I would say The Brits had every incentive to do what you are suggesting to drag us into the war with them.

And I only say that because believe it or not, they tried the exact same strategy in 1939 or 1940 (I can't remember when specifically because I'm going off of memory), but the Germans didn't bite on it this time. The United States did provide aid to Britain using civilian ships and naval vessels, but none of the civilian fleets were bothered.

On Pearl Harbor I am near 75 percent.

The new deal was failing in almost all aspects until the war machine began rolling. I truly think we sucked ourselves in somehow and needed a PR reason due to the current isolationist mindset.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

On Pearl Harbor I am near 75 percent.

The new deal was failing in almost all aspects until the war machine began rolling. I truly think we sucked ourselves in somehow and needed a PR reason due to the current isolationist mindset.

I agree with that.

 

[NEO]

If you think about it, we got off the gold standard in 1971. Kissinger was able to cut a deal with the Saudis and the other Arab oil producers that they could raise the price of oil to whatever they felt was necessary to compensate for the dollar being decoupled from gold. The one condition was that they had to recirculate all of their proceeds back into dollar assets/equities. As a result of that action, this gave you the oil shock of the early 1970's.

What many people probably didn't know then and don't know now, but that was essentially the dollar being revalued.

Kissinger is the definition of how you control the actions of a country for decades without the general public ever having a clue who you are. He was the king maker and maybe even the king himself.

His handling of Chile showed he had more global power than the current sitting President.

 

[hog88]

Meh, that is hard to say. Who knows how things would have been had FDR survived.

We would have given Stalin all of Germany and half of Japan.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

We would have given Stalin all of Germany and half of Japan.

I guess that means we possibly would have gotten the other half or whatever was left over?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

.

 

[hog88]

I guess that means we possibly would have gotten the other half?

And eventually fought another war over it.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

And eventually fought another war over it.

You bring up an interesting scenario.

If that is the case, we would have likely been better off letting Germany and The Red Army fight it out and burn each other out by staying out of it.

 

[Orangeburst]

And eventually fought another war over it.

Kinda how it always happens..WW1 lead to WW2, which lead to Cold War proxy wars. Same in the ME

 

[hog88]

You bring up an interesting scenario.

If that is the case, we would have likely been better off letting Germany and The Red Army fight it out and burn each other out by staying out of it.

We should have never helped Stalin and let the Germans bleed themselves and the Russians out until both were too weak to resist then conquered Europe.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

We should have never helped Stalin and let the Germans bleed themselves and the Russians out until both were too weak to resist then conquered Europe.

Exactly my point. It would have been a Pyrrhic victor for whoever made it out of that.

 

[hog88]

Exactly my point. It would have been a Pyrrhic victor for whoever made it out of that.

So you agree we should have entered the war.

 

[midnight orange]

We would have given Stalin all of Germany and half of Japan.

Hell, the way FDR negotiated with Stalin we probably would have given them Alaska west of Anchorage in exchange for giving them more food and equipment.

 

[StarRaider]

Kissinger is the definition of how you control the actions of a country for decades without the general public ever having a clue who you are. He was the king maker and maybe even the king himself.

His handling of Chile showed he had more global power than the current sitting President.

I did not realize HK is still alive.

 

[Vol Main]

I want these January 6th clowns to come in and explain how you can call January 6th an insurrection when we have instances like this happening.

Forget about it, Rasp. It's over your head.