JJJ

#203
#203
bleedingTNorange said:
I don’t think he gets/deserves a free praise, but my stance has and will be this…our ceiling is higher with JJJ & Vescovi than say Carr & Dillione. Will we reach that ceiling, who knows, but their “good” is better than those other guys “good” at this point imo.
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Herein lies the problem, I'm not sure if Carr and Dillione will make a high impact. I haven't seen a specific outstanding skill that makes me think ok that guy has incredible handles, speed, outstanding jumping ability/athleticism, shooting ability, etc. Are they 4 year players that will get better if they have other good players around them? Quite possibly.

So the fact that we are better with JJJ and SV right now still doesn't enstill a lot of confidence that they will be someone other than what they've been for 4 plus years.
 
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#204
#204
BreatheUT said:
Herein lies the problem, I'm not sure if Carr and Dillione will make a high impact. I haven't seen a specific outstanding skill that makes me think ok that guy has incredible handles, speed, outstanding jumping ability/athleticism, shooting ability, etc. Are they 4 year players that will get better if they have other good players around them? Quite possibly.

So the fact that we are better with JJJ and SV right now still doesn't enstill a lot of confidence that they will be someone other than what they've been for 4 plus years.
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BTO is discussing team ceiling, not player ceiling.
 
#206
#206
beachvol23 said:
^ 💯 !!! The inconsistency from JJJ ANS SV is very disappointing. Those two SHOULD be leading this team, not disappearing. Enough of this nonsense about intangibles not in box score! They’re basketball players and paid to SCORE but can’t even make layups! Those two frequently pass up wide open jump shots (especially shots that fit their game) only to take a worse shot or make a horrible pass that destroys the flow of offense. From a chemistry and performance standpoint, those two appear to be more of the problem than solutions. They look like entitled pouting seniors and nobody wants to admit it. If they’re gonna stand around and not lead this team, then they need to be on the bench.
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I agree with most of what you said besides the pouting part.

I was ready to move on from these guys after last season but I thought Santi could provide more because he has been a reliable shooter for much of his career. The reality is these guys are taking up two roster spots, and we know we had a promising transfer leave because of it. They got to bring more consistency but that is a broken record at this point.
 
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#207
#207
BreatheUT said:
Their ceiling impacts the team ceiling however they are better than Dillione and Carr it would appear unless it's a minutes thing.
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I think the point is your premise is true that JJJ and Santi are understood commodities, with Santi still having the potential to return as a high scoring threat. The difference is the supporting cast. ZZ was out for the last half of last season, and we didn’t have Knecht. Mashack and Awaka are improved at both ends, and Gainey contributes on defense well, and offense enough. The team ceiling this year is definitively higher than last.
 
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#208
#208
BreatheUT said:
Their ceiling impacts the team ceiling however they are better than Dillione and Carr it would appear unless it's a minutes thing.
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Given that the same folks are still disappearing on us....again, I can't help but wonder what this team might look like if Carr, Estrella and Dillione had gotten the minutes that have gone to Vescovi and JJJ had they not returned? I know Dillione is injured and our record/seed likely wouldn't be as good, but might we not be in a better spot for March if the youngsters got the lions share of minutes this season? Between them I suspect we'd be able to get at least what JJJ and Vescovi are giving us right now....at least offensively. And with minutes, I think their defense would be improved by this point in the season.
 
#209
#209
At this point I wouldn't mind this lineup :

ZZ/Gainey
DK
Mashack/SV
Awaka/JJJ
Aidoo/Estrella

That's not too much of an adjustment for Barnes. We already have seen he has
tried Mashack at the 5 and Awaka at the 4
 
#210
#210
CAVPUT said:
Given that the same folks are still disappearing on us....again, I can't help but wonder what this team might look like if Carr, Estrella and Dillione had gotten the minutes that have gone to Vescovi and JJJ had they not returned? I know Dillione is injured and our record/seed likely wouldn't be as good, but might we not be in a better spot for March if the youngsters got the lions share of minutes this season? Between them I suspect we'd be able to get at least what JJJ and Vescovi are giving us right now....at least offensively. And with minutes, I think their defense would be improved by this point in the season.
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While I agree we're not getting many tangible from Vescovi and JJJ, I wonder if intangibles like not turning the ball over is where their value is vs younger guys. It can be costly in tight games and it's hard to put a value on with so little to show for it in their stats.
 
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#211
#211
Here are JJJ’s numbers in conference play. 59 total points-5.9 ppg. 56 total rebounds-5.6 ppg. 7-31 on 3 point attempts/makes-22.5 %. 6-8 with free throw attempts. If you take out the Kentucky game, he’s 3-22 on 3’s and 2-4 for free throws. It mind boggling that he has only attempted 8 free throws in 10 conference games, but Barnes knows best. By the way, he is 6’6 and 225. So every time he drives, opponents know he is not going to attack the rim.
 
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#212
#212
BreatheUT said:
While I agree we're not getting many tangible from Vescovi and JJJ, I wonder if intangibles like not turning the ball over is where their value is vs younger guys. It can be costly in tight games and it's hard to put a value on with so little to show for it in their stats.
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I agree. Spammed this in another thread, but I can see why Barnes rolls with the more mature/experience players. With only one year of Knecht, they do give us the best chance at taking full advantage of a talent like that. Wish those super seniors were more dependable and that Barnes had played the youngsters a lot more early this year, but it is what it is. Just have to hope JJJ and Vescovi will finally decide that the time is now and they'll turn it on in March. Not expecting it, but this fan base certainly deserves a magical season.
 
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#213
#213
Orangeslide said:
Here are JJJ’s numbers in conference play. 59 total points-5.9 ppg. 56 total rebounds-5.6 ppg. 7-31 on 3 point attempts/makes-22.5 %. 6-8 with free throw attempts. If you take out the Kentucky game, he’s 3-22 on 3’s and 2-4 for free throws. It mind boggling that he has only attempted 8 free throws in 10 conference games, but Barnes knows best. By the way, he is 6’6 and 225. So every time he drives, opponents know he is not going to attack the rim.
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For a guy with a physique like that to produce those number is embarrassing. Hate to say it, but the adage of "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" appears to fit in this case. Maybe it's all those romance novels?
 
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#214
#214
Orangeslide said:
Here are JJJ’s numbers in conference play. 59 total points-5.9 ppg. 56 total rebounds-5.6 ppg. 7-31 on 3 point attempts/makes-22.5 %. 6-8 with free throw attempts. If you take out the Kentucky game, he’s 3-22 on 3’s and 2-4 for free throws. It mind boggling that he has only attempted 8 free throws in 10 conference games, but Barnes knows best. By the way, he is 6’6 and 225. So every time he drives, opponents know he is not going to attack the rim.
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Nah man, you're just a casual who doesn't know basketball. We're just lucky to be here.
 
#215
#215
vols 30 said:
Our super seniors are supposed to lead when we run into a game like this, but they act like a freshman playing their 1st game
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You're not wrong. If nothing else, they were brought back to provide leadership in these situations. And for the most part, for whatever reason, when the going gets tough, they disappear. It's really disappointing, actually.
 
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#217
#217
vols1071 said:
He just plays so soft offensively for his size.... It has baffled me his entire time here
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In 10 conference games, he has shot 8 total free throws. It’s safe to say in these last 8 games, he’s not attacking the rim to score. I wish he would shoot more mid range jumpers instead of 3’s but that’s just my opinion, but what do I know? He does average 6 rebounds per game, so I guess that’s his upside. He seems to guard consistently too. Barnes knows best. Go Vols!
 
#218
#218
madbamahater said:
At some point he will be moving on and so will Tennessee. Hate to say this, actually, and it's literally nothing personal. I'm sure and I've heard and I believe he is a great guy and ambassador. HE IS A HUGE LIABILITY ON THE COURT.
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He’s a 5th year guy that is averaging a measly 6 ppg. I believe Mashack can give you that every game. Just saying.
 
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#220
#220
JJJ has never been very good. He has about 2-3 good games a year. Would rather see Mashack instead of him
 
#221
#221
I will say, I wish Barnes would spread out the minutes a little more. Maybe 3-5 more for both Mashack and Awaka with a sprinkle of Estrella in there. Also I hope after watching the film that the staff realizes that our small lineup with JJJ at the 5 could be our best overall lineup and should be utilized more. We have the opportunity to run some teams to death.
 
#222
#222
Rocky Top T said:
JJJ has never been very good. He has about 2-3 good games a year. Would rather see Mashack instead of him
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JJJ plays dozens of “good” games (or better) every year. He’s not a shoot first player and often isn't selfish enough with the ball. He doesn’t attack the basket very often, but he also has very few turnovers. JJJ is also a very capable ball handler with length - how often do we see opponents go into hard pressed? TN isn’t ranked in this unprecedented run without him.

He’s pretty smart with shot selection. When he’s not making them he’s not going to shoot TN out of games. He’s also not going to shut down his attempts completely or else the other team will play 5 on 4.

Dude had a forgettable game Saturday. He wasn’t the only one.
 
#223
#223
Rocky Top T said:
JJJ has never been very good. He has about 2-3 good games a year. Would rather see Mashack instead of him
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Some revisionist history here. He was perhaps our most consistent player thru our first 12 games, this year.

11.7 pts, 7 rebs, 2.1 assts, 1.3 stls, and only 1.5 TOs per game. All while shooting 43.6%/41.7%/75.6%.

The issue is the tale of two halves of the season. In the 11 games since then...

6.1 pts, 5.5 rebs, 1.9 assts, 1.2 stls, and 0.9 TOs per game. And plummeting shooting numbers, 35.6%/22.2%/77.8%. And those numbers include his best overall game of the season at UK.

No doubt he's been bad since the calendar flipped over, but over the pre-conference portion of our schedule, he was playing the best basketball of his career, and doing it consistently.
 
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#225
#225
CornbreadVol said:
I will say, I wish Barnes would spread out the minutes a little more. Maybe 3-5 more for both Mashack and Awaka with a sprinkle of Estrella in there. Also I hope after watching the film that the staff realizes that our small lineup with JJJ at the 5 could be our best overall lineup and should be utilized more. We have the opportunity to run some teams to death.
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There are places for it, certainly, but CRB has used it to our detriment, too.

Three straight possessions at the end of the South Carolina game with that lineup led to 5 points. That was absolutely not the place to use it and it took 3 possessions to figure that out when I was screaming "No!" at my TV when I saw him make the subs to employ it while ZZ was shooting FTs.

Now, Rick Barnes has forgotten more basketball than I'll ever know, but if someone like me can see that and immediately identify the fatal flaw in that plan, how does he (and his staff) not see it and then stubbornly stick with it for three straight possessions that netted USCe an opportunity for 6 points?
 
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