Jones biggest mistake was

#101
#101
TommyOler said:
I'm probably the oldest guy who posts on here...been bleeding orange since the early seventies. Friends, I can tell you from experience that we have a long, long way to go, before Vols are competing for championships in the SEC.

The Vols finally have the right guy...but it is going to take several years of staff continuity to get the Big Orange back on top to stay.

The period Tennessee is in, right now, reminds me of the end of the Bill Battle era/beginning of the Johnny Majors era. One day...Bill Battle looked up and he had no speed on defense AND Condredge Holloway had graduated (taking anything offensively dynamic to the CFL with him.)

In the SEC, a team has to be two-deep with elite speed at every skill position. The Vols don't have elite speed anywhere in the back seven defensively... and only one, possibly two, players on offense with elite speed.

It took Johnny Majors (a proven national championship caliber coach) 8 years to win the SEC. (It had been 16 years, total.) What followed was the Big Orange dominance of the 90's...which happened because (even though Majors left in '92, the rest of the staff stayed.) The continuity allowed recruiting relationships with high school coaches allowed for solid pipelines to be built and maintained by the same assistant coaches.

We could go to Frostproof, FL and get Alvin Harper in the late 80's...then go back to Frostproof and grab Travis Henry nearly a decade later...because of relationships between assistant coaches and high school coaches that took years to build.

The Vols were able to rebuild and continue to build because of continuity. There were grumblings...but coach Majors had "done it" at Pitt, so fans knew he at least knew how. Fulmer was a continuation of Majors.

It took 18 years...from Coach Majors first team in 1977...to compete for a national championship...and 21 years to win it. We're not located in Texas, Florida or Alabama, where elite speed grows on trees. We have to build relationships with high school coaches in those places...and, even when we have those relationships in place...it will take years to get to a where we've snatched enough team speed to be two-deep at all skill positions during a four-year cycle.

If the Vols don't stick with THIS guy (CBJ,) they won't consistently compete for championships...ever again. That's how bad of a shape Kiffin & Dooley left the program.
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I absolutely agree and my fear is that our present culture of instant gratification will impede any progress as pressure mounts for immediate results.
 
#102
#102
CountVolcula said:
But did you look at our schedule?

I mean, we beat South Carolina at home but couldn't beat Vandy

One was good coaching, one was bad

Yet, if you point this out then the first sentence is thrown in your face.

If that doesn't work, then you don't understand football or you're just plain stupid
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Coaches call bad games.....coaches call great games too....so do all of you that keep pointing out the obvious want an award or your name on a bill board or something? Perhaps a movie made about you? Get Channing Tatum to play the Count?
:eek:lol:

JK.
 
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#103
#103
DERELICK_MY_VOLS said:
It was a joke to Doyle Hargraves.....easy Flex. That was a poll he himself started about who all wanted CBJ fired. He asked who wanted him fired at the beginning of this thread....joking showing him he should already know.
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He already knew the answer...he just DEMANDS more out of Volnation posters than they do themself :)
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
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#105
#105
Other_Guy said:
Not trying to retain Chaney. I know I know, Jake is his guy in his system. That's fine. However, I think in this situation you stick with what's working and keep the good coaches unless you have an amazing one already on your staff. I believe Worley would have played amazingly better and actually let this team to a 7-5 record.

You may think "It won't work in the long run its not his style". Ok, what happens if Butch had to fire Jake and get a new guy? I may be completely wrong about this but I think keeping Chaney pays off more.

Just like Kiffin. Monte is great and all, but there is NO freaking way you get rid of Chavis. Dools might still be the coach and winning a SEC champ game this year if he would have kept him too... (not sure if I'm being serious or not)

Am I completey wrong here?
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I think you are wrong, and allow me to explain why.

If you had seen some of Cincinnati's games while Jones was there, you would see that the offensive system he and Bajakian are trying to implement is very potent. The problem last season was speed, and number of skilled players that did not have the tools to work well with it. I believe that this season, with the upperclassmen having time to adapt to it, and many of the freshmen who can earn immediate reps, we will see more of what he used at Cincinnati.

As to Chavis, once Fulmer was fired, Chief did not wish to remain. And as much as I appreciate Chavis, his two minute defense is a weakness. He ran a very soft zone that good teams could exploit, and even with the talent LSU has had, I have seen them get burned at least 2 or 3 times since he got there. And if you ask Southern Cal, Monte was not that great either.

In my opinion, too many of us long too deeply for past coaches who are seen as better than they really are. While they were here, folks griped and grumbled about them, and once they are gone, they wish those same guys were still here. A common behavior among many Vols fans. It comes as no surprise that a segment of the Tennessee fan base is known as the Legion of the Miserable. I try to be man enough to admit that I have joined them from time to time. If we ever get group therapy going, I guess I will get to meet more of them face to face. If the Vols start winning again, that may help...SOME.
 
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#106
#106
TommyOler said:
I'm probably the oldest guy who posts on here...been bleeding orange since the early seventies. Friends, I can tell you from experience that we have a long, long way to go, before Vols are competing for championships in the SEC.

The Vols finally have the right guy...but it is going to take several years of staff continuity to get the Big Orange back on top to stay.

The period Tennessee is in, right now, reminds me of the end of the Bill Battle era/beginning of the Johnny Majors era. One day...Bill Battle looked up and he had no speed on defense AND Condredge Holloway had graduated (taking anything offensively dynamic to the CFL with him.)

In the SEC, a team has to be two-deep with elite speed at every skill position. The Vols don't have elite speed anywhere in the back seven defensively... and only one, possibly two, players on offense with elite speed.

It took Johnny Majors (a proven national championship caliber coach) 8 years to win the SEC. (It had been 16 years, total.) What followed was the Big Orange dominance of the 90's...which happened because (even though Majors left in '92, the rest of the staff stayed.) The continuity allowed recruiting relationships with high school coaches allowed for solid pipelines to be built and maintained by the same assistant coaches.

We could go to Frostproof, FL and get Alvin Harper in the late 80's...then go back to Frostproof and grab Travis Henry nearly a decade later...because of relationships between assistant coaches and high school coaches that took years to build.

The Vols were able to rebuild and continue to build because of continuity. There were grumblings...but coach Majors had "done it" at Pitt, so fans knew he at least knew how. Fulmer was a continuation of Majors.

It took 18 years...from Coach Majors first team in 1977...to compete for a national championship...and 21 years to win it. We're not located in Texas, Florida or Alabama, where elite speed grows on trees. We have to build relationships with high school coaches in those places...and, even when we have those relationships in place...it will take years to get to a where we've snatched enough team speed to be two-deep at all skill positions during a four-year cycle.

If the Vols don't stick with THIS guy (CBJ,) they won't consistently compete for championships...ever again. That's how bad of a shape Kiffin & Dooley left the program.
Click to expand...

Excellent post. However, with the unprecedented rate in which this staff is recruiting, I truly believe that the turnaround is not as far away as you believe. Here are the major factors:

1. Players development being as high of a priority as recruiting.

2. The Thornton Center keeping players on track with academics. Over the years, including the Majors/Fulmer years, too many good athletes were lost because of grades.

3. Strong character development. Again, how many more championships would Tennessee have without players being suspended, kicked out, or arrested? Could some of those issues be covered up before? No doubt. Today, with technology, that has gotten way more difficult.

If CBJ is who I think he is, he is doing everything within his power to cover those areas. I am sure there will be issues, but if the culture at Tennessee can minimize the impact of these issues, the rise to the top can be much faster than the history you provided would suggest.
 
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#108
#108
I just hope some Vol fans give the man some time to rebuild this program instead of wanting to fire him after his 1st year. Heck every coach makes stupid mistakes.
 
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#110
#110
Didn't Butch win 4 conference championships in 6 seasons with the coaches he has in place? If they have a good working relationships, and have proven to be successful together, wouldn't it be crazy to break up that chemistry?
 
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#111
#111
GBOVOLS said:
Do you know the record of the team Chaney's with this year? Secondly why would any coach run a system that doesn't fit his offensive theory?!?!?! That makes no sense for a run first coach to employ a pass first, second, and last OC!
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You do realize where Cheney coaches now, right? You do know that Arkansas, under Cheney, ran the ball over and over and over again this season.
 
#112
#112
rsm said:
our fans are the reason peyton manning will never coach here...lose one game and they would want to fire him
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so that is the reason Peyton will never coach here ? I guess you and him had that conversation ?
 
#115
#115
gnm53108 said:
The first thing that came to my mind was that "red team" stuff.
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I think it's all the cliches, in general. This is UT and the SEC. Stupid cliches aren't needed. It's a bit Mickey Mouse.

10 years from now, no one is going to look back on team 117 with any sort of reverence. These crappy years will be lumped together.
 
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#118
#118
Boca Vol said:
I think it's all the cliches, in general. This is UT and the SEC. Stupid cliches aren't needed. It's a bit Mickey Mouse.

10 years from now, no one is going to look back on team 117 with any sort of reverence. These crappy years will be lumped together.
Click to expand...

Probably wont take that long. It's hard right now to remember much difference between 10, 11, and 12.
 
#119
#119
Other_Guy said:
Not trying to retain Chaney. ... However, I think in this situation you stick with what's working and keep the good coaches unless you have an amazing one already on your staff.
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Sorry to disagree here, but retaining Cheney was not "what was working". We had a killer offense due to these facts ...
#1 Third year QB who now plays in the NFL
#2 WR1 who plays NFL as a 2nd round NFL pic
#3 WR2 who is NFL 1st round pic and rookie pro-bowler
#4 TE with 3 years experience now playing in the NFL
#5 WR3 who plays in the NFL as a rookie
... ALL of them left after the season with Cheney. And you want to retain the coach ... :salute:
 
#121
#121
99gator said:
The only, and I mean literally only, fun part of going 4-8 is knowing that you all can only go with it so far before having to deal with the fact that Tennessee is one of the four.
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99gator, you ran right to the corner you should have run to...and you're right....We can rag a little but the buck stopped right where said it did...that's fun stuff...Maybe we'll both have better seasons this coming year...
 
#122
#122
I only saw 2 glaring mistakes from CBJ all season.

1.) Starting Peterman for the Florida game. I know what he said as far as Peterman having a great week of practice but I still think some of that was he was feeling the pressure of trying something new.

2.) Handicapping Dobbs in the second half of the Vandy game and playing not to lose.
 
#123
#123
Brave Volunteer said:
I only saw 2 glaring mistakes from CBJ all season.

1.) Starting Peterman for the Florida game. I know what he said as far as Peterman having a great week of practice but I still think some of that was he was feeling the pressure of trying something new.

2.) Handicapping Dobbs in the second half of the Vandy game and playing not to lose.
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Go back to this board when it was announced that Peterman was starting the UF game. Champagne corks were popping everywhere.

After the UF game, those same posters were questioning Butch's decision of starting Peterman. That's the benefit of being a fan....you're NEVER wrong. If you are, there's no one there to call you on it and you're allowed to turn on a coach in a split second.
 
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#124
#124
BigOrangeTrain said:
Some of our "fans" have already said because CBJ did not do what Malzahan did the he is not a good coach. More than likely if CBJ does not win a bowl game this season, people will be calling for his head. Some "fans" doesn't know what rebuilding means.
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CBJ has to make it to a bowl game before we can talk about him winning one. 6-6 was not impossible in 2013, and if we don't make it to a bowl game in 2014 the 2015 recruiting class will suffer immensely, as there will be no improvement shown under Jones' leadership.
 
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#125
#125
I know jones runs a read option offense but it is not effective with a qb that can't run. I think he should have worked the offense around Worley's strengths (whatever they may be).

Like what LK did with crompton, letting him throw on the run from the play action.
 
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