Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

[chuckiepoo]

Good grief: Summitt didn't "take over" a program. The program had just started. She was our first coach--or the second ,as I believe she took over as coach after the first coach, whoever that was, quit after a very short time. Of course Summitt didn't get a lot of respect during her early years. Nobody did: It was the early years OF THE SPORT! And if Harper is getting a lot of respect on the recruiting trail, it's hasn't been manifesting itself in, uh....recruits.

Check yer history. Continuous since 1960. Hutson is the name for which you’re looking.

 

[Coach Jumper]

There is an old saying CJ, players win the games in blowouts. Coaches win the close games.

and it's absolutely true
and the uniting of the two wins championships

Win or go home basketball
I once had an AAU team of 13 players, who wanted to do a tournament weekend for the summer. I made the agreement with them, 8 or more and I would find a tourney (Atlanta)...We did 18 tournaments and played 72 games that summer, & 7 Tournament trophies...
Nothing else gives that kind of rush.

That where what you say up there is fact.
in a close game, win or lose, the comment of "You out coached them" or "You got outcoached" by a fan/parent/coach (whose opinion matters) ,,, Can make or break you if what they say is true

 

[Lawdawg]

Offer Coach Yo the Tennessee job if it ever comes open. Thoughts?

 

[LUVMESUMVOL]

There is noway KJH sit Darby i just don't see it. I agree TN needs a SG

That’s a losing decision

 

[Advol]

Lady Vol Basketball has become irrelevant...................Nuff said!
And UConn is right behind them......
Pretty Simple

 

[Memvol44]

Offer Coach Yo the Tennessee job if it ever comes open. Thoughts?

Hell no!

 

[Coach Jumper]

Offer Coach Yo the Tennessee job if it ever comes open. Thoughts?

 

[djohnnyg]

Kim Mulkey is an elite top coach...as much as I hate to say it. It's her...Geno and Staley. Kellie is not in the same universe as them and for a program w the history and pride of UT it's inexcusable she is the best we could get. She's pretty...and nice....but that crap doesn't matter. When will powers that be and fans realize this?

 

[Volfaninfl2]

Kim Mulkey is an elite top coach...as much as I hate to say it. It's her...Geno and Staley. Kellie is not in the same universe as them and for a program w the history and pride of UT it's inexcusable she is the best we could get. She's pretty...and nice....but that crap doesn't matter. When will powers that be and fans realize this?

Well, Kellie’s TN teams have beaten both Kim and Dawn, so I’d say she is in the same universe. They’re just older than Kellie.

 

[cwbytruckers]

Being Tennessee Lady Vol fans we must realize that we have a ways to go before we can challenge the top five teams in the nation. Our guard play has to improve, losing Horston sets us back ever further. Where we find a replacement for Horston is anyone’s guess. There is no one presently on this team to replace her athleticism, leaving out the uncalled for turnovers. I still want to see more of Pissott. KJH have a lot of hard work ahead of her, even to be the third best team in the SEC.

It starts with a coach that can actually get it done. We dont have that. Or at least she hasnt proved it so far.

 

[ttharp]

Well, Kellie’s TN teams have beaten both Kim and Dawn, so I’d say she is in the same universe. They’re just older than Kellie.

So would you put Holly Warlick in the same universe as Kim and Dawn?? Holly beat Dawn more than once. Along with Vic, Muffett (when she had a contending team), Tara (twice) and Kevin McGuff at Ohio State.

Kellie has only beaten Dawn and Kim once.

Regular season wins are great. Kellie beating Kim in the SEC tournament was great. However, the big dance holds more weight, and that’s were Kim and Dawn have separated themselves.

 

[Volfaninfl2]

So would you put Holly Warlick in the same universe as Kim and Dawn?? Holly beat Dawn more than once. Along with Vic, Muffett (when she had a contending team), Tara (twice) and Kevin McGuff at Ohio State.

Kellie has only beaten Dawn and Kim once.

Regular season wins are great. Kellie beating Kim in the SEC tournament was great. However, the big dance holds more weight, and that’s were Kim and Dawn have separated themselves.

Obviously the poster was talking about Kellie, not Holly. Holly is a bit of old news, but no, I would not defend Holly, and I am a firm believer in Kellie and what she will accomplish.

 

[ttharp]

Obviously the poster was talking about Kellie, not Holly. Holly is a bit of old news, but no, I would not defend Holly, and I am a firm believer in Kellie and what she will accomplish.

You’re saying Kellie should be put in the same universe for beating Dawn and Kim. The previous head coach (that was fired) beat more big name coaches than Kelle has — Dawn being one of them.

She beat the 2017 SC team that went on to win a championship. You’re ALSO saying you wouldn’t put Holly in the same universe as Kim and Dawn, but you would put Kellie there. And I’m trying to understand why.

 

[Volfaninfl2]

You’re saying Kellie should be put in the same universe for beating Dawn and Kim. The previous head coach (that was fired) beat more big name coaches than Kelle has — Dawn being one of them.

She beat the 2017 SC team that went on to win a championship. You’re ALSO saying you wouldn’t put Holly in the same universe as Kim and Dawn, but you would put Kellie there. And I’m trying to understand why.

You’re one who argues, I am not. You are putting words in my mouth I did not say. You brought up Holly, I never said Holly was or was not in the same universe. I said I would defend Kellie because I believe in her.

 

[ttharp]

You’re one who argues, I am not. You are putting words in my mouth I did not say. You brought up Holly, I never said Holly was or was not in the same universe. I said I would defend Kellie because I believe in her.

You’re one who argues, I am not. You are putting words in my mouth I did not say. You brought up Holly, I never said Holly was or was not in the same universe. I said I would defend Kellie because I believe in her.

I was asking a question to better understand the logic of your argument that Kellie should be put in the same universe as Kim and Dawn.
I don’t think it’s realistic to not expect any follow up questions or debate when making a statement like that - especially when the coach hasn’t won a natty or even been to the FF.

 

[Volfaninfl2]

I was asking a question to better understand the logic of your argument that Kellie should be put in the same universe as Kim and Dawn.
I don’t think it’s realistic to not expect any follow up questions or debate when making a statement like that - especially when the coach hasn’t won a natty or even been to the FF.

Why the drama or debate, “a statement like that”? Someone said Kellie is not in the same universe as KM and DS, and is not good enough to be our Coach. I was reminding that poster of the fact that Kellie, in her short time as TN’s Coach, has already beaten each of them, (KM just a month ago). Kellie is younger than either KM or DS, I believe the Final Fours and National Championships will come.

If you want to ask me why I support Kellie, one of many reasons would be that even against a lot of adversity, our team continues to improve.

Have a nice evening.

 

[Majors]

Well, Kellie’s TN teams have beaten both Kim and Dawn, so I’d say she is in the same universe. They’re just older than Kellie.

It starts with a coach that can actually get it done. We dont have that. Or at least she hasnt proved it so far.

How long does it take? Mulkey has been a HC since 2001 - 4 titles. Staley has been a HC since 2000 - 2 titles. Harper has been a HC since 2004 - 0 titles. Those early 2000 coaches have a pretty good sample size by now.

 

[Dak1219]

How long does it take? Mulkey has been a HC since 2001 - 4 titles. Staley has been a HC since 2000 - 2 titles. Harper has been a HC since 2004 - 0 titles. Those early 2000 coaches have a pretty good sample size by now.

It basically took Dawn Staley 6 years to get it going at South Carolina and then she still had some bumps and bruises following those first 6 with early exits from the tournament. She would have had to start recruiting different types of players than she could probably recruit to Temple. Kim moving from Baylor to LSU; Kim would continue to recruit the same type of players she had recruited for the last 20 years. Kellie is pretty much in the Same boat as Dawn was with the type of player she would have been recruiting to Missouri State, yet when she took over still managed to stay in the top part of the conference, cause Holly had that boat sinking.

 

[creekdipper]

How long does it take? Mulkey has been a HC since 2001 - 4 titles. Staley has been a HC since 2000 - 2 titles. Harper has been a HC since 2004 - 0 titles.

Those early 2000 coaches have a pretty good sample size by now.

Disingenuous much?

Mulkey has been at Baylor/LSU for 23 years. Staley has been at South Carolina for 15 years. We're not counting Staley's Temple years as a major university program.

In comparison, Kellie has been over a major college program for a total of seven years. Please name the number of mid-major and smaller school programs that have won any national championships since the early seventies before the women played in the NCAA tournament.

As mentioned many times before, there is a grand total of 5 active coaches who have won any national bb championship. If titles are your sole standard, then all but five coaches are utter failures.

Kellie may or may not be the answer to winning titles. That is her goal and what everyone wants. But you're not exactly setting up a level playing field here. Remember, if Bluder's team hadn't done a phenomenal job behind the performance of a transformative player, this year's final would have again featured two of the exclusive club of five (which includes Frese with one NC twenty years ago).

Yes, we should expect Elite Eights and Final Fours and eventual championships. But when the guy who has three times as many NC as any other active coach has had a championship drought since 2016, it demonstrates how hard it is to get there.

 

[Darth_Vol]

Give me Fudd, Bueckers and Edwards, and my offense will look good.

Could Kellie? I'm not so sure.

I could see her bringing Bueckers off the bench...

 

[Advol]

It basically took Dawn Staley 6 years to get it going at South Carolina and then she still had some bumps and bruises following those first 6 with early exits from the tournament. She would have had to start recruiting different types of players than she could probably recruit to Temple. Kim moving from Baylor to LSU; Kim would continue to recruit the same type of players she had recruited for the last 20 years. Kellie is pretty much in the Same boat as Dawn was with the type of player she would have been recruiting to Missouri State, yet when she took over still managed to stay in the top part of the conference, cause Holly had that boat sinking.View attachment 544673

Please dont confuse facts with issues.................................

 

[Darth_Vol]

Please dont confuse facts with issues.................................

The facts show Dawn Staley didn't take over a program rich with history and a roster full of high school All-Americans, nor did she have a previous stint of failure coaching a power five school. But other than that...

 

[Dak1219]

The facts show Dawn Staley didn't take over a program rich with history and a roster full of high school All-Americans, nor did she have a previous stint of failure coaching a power five school. But other than that...

Feel free to list all the All-Americans that played at Tennessee Kellies' first year. She had a team full of freshman and sophomores, Zaay Green blew her knee out and I think the program had landed at a point where Holley and Staff had recruited Emily Saunders and Jessie Rennie. Kamera Harris was the "Senior Leader" on that team. Got It.

 

[Darth_Vol]

Feel free to list all the All-Americans that played at Tennessee Kellies' first year.

I clearly said HIGH SCHOOL All-Americans, which is a fact. Are you seriously comparing the talent Kellie inherited to what Staley took over?

Rickea Jackson, Rae Burrell, Horston, Key? Poor Kellie with the empty cupboard...

 

[Dak1219]

I clearly said HIGH SCHOOL All-Americans, which is a fact. Are you seriously comparing the talent Kellie inherited to what Staley took over?

Rickea Jackson, Rae Burrell, Horston, Key? Poor Kellie with the empty cupboard...

Rae Burrell was ranked 49th in her class and didn't see the floor under Holly. As for Key and Horston, Kellie had to go and re-recruit them. Hell, Key was ranked 47th in her class. Compare that to Sarah and Karoline who were 41 and 43.