Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

[Darth_Vol]

When it’s phrased that way it seems Holly left the program in better shape than some want to admit. Her true evaluation of the company she’s in starts when her players Darby, Striplin, Sara and Justine are on the draft clock. She gets credit for the draft picks, so Holly should get credit for getting them here.

But I was told Kellie walked into a dire situation devoid of talent?

 

[glv98]

But I was told Kellie walked into a dire situation devoid of talent?

Off by only a few words. Kellie walked into a dire situation with limited, underdeveloped talent which was totally not bought in. See above re Rennia Davis.

Ya'll make me a much more staunch defender of KJH then I mean to be. But facts are facts. Get to know some.

 

[turbovol]

Right: On the one hand we need to trumpet "Harper's four first-round draft picks," as it's good PR and we
/need/ good PR to help boost recruiting. On the other it's a bit misleading since she didn't recruit any of them...but
we'll try to be quiet about that.....

 

[Coach Jumper]

Speaking of ending great, so very predictiable of you to leave out the happy ending to the RJ story. Not a good look early, but ended up being a total culture win when RJ chose to stay and repeatedly praised the coaches and culture. Actually her staying is an even better look bc of the early bad look.

But feel free to always leave out any facts or context that don't boost your narrative.

The right words....

 

[Majors]

But I was told Kellie walked into a dire situation devoid of talent?

It’s an observation that can’t go unnoticed when articles are published about being in rare company of players drafted. With 1 more to go in Key.

 

[Majors]

Right: On the one hand we need to trumpet "Harper's four first-round draft picks," as it's good PR and we
/need/ good PR to help boost recruiting. On the other it's a bit misleading since she didn't recruit any of them...but
we'll try to be quiet about that.....

Would carry more weight if she was able to claim kids from Western Carolina, NC State, Missouri State as first round draft picks. Probably more Missouri State being her longest tenured.

 

[Majors]

Off by only a few words. Kellie walked into a dire situation with limited, underdeveloped talent which was totally not bought in. See above re Rennia Davis.

Ya'll make me a much more staunch defender of KJH then I mean to be. But facts are facts. Get to know some.

And others more staunch of Holly than anyone needs to be.

 

[glv98]

Yeah, not too sure many are going to see this and say, "Yeah, but Holly recruited her!" I'm sure you guys have them all on speed dail though.

Honestly, the drafting of Horston may be the worst possible example of the recruiting coach deserving credit over the coaching coach. You have to work really hard, plus not been watching the last 4 yrs, to not give Kellie Harper total and mass credit for what Jordan Horston has been able to accomplish.

Also, by the end of Holly, her players were being drafted for their potential, in spite of what she had done to them. Mercedes Russell.

 

[Dak1219]

Right: On the one hand we need to trumpet "Harper's four first-round draft picks," as it's good PR and we
/need/ good PR to help boost recruiting. On the other it's a bit misleading since she didn't recruit any of them...but
we'll try to be quiet about that.....

With the transfer portal the way it is, she did have to recruit them to stay in this program. Also to get them to the next level, the players have to be not only nurtured to stay at the program but also challenged to get better and developed year after year. Rae Burrell does not go into the draft and get chosen over about 40 players that were ranked higher than her coming into college unless she was developed by the coaching staff where she played.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

With the transfer portal the way it is, she did have to recruit them to stay in this program. Also to get them to the next level, the players have to be not only nurtured to stay at the program but also challenged to get better and developed year after year. Rae Burrell does not go into the draft and get chosen over about 40 players that were ranked higher than her coming into college unless she was developed by the coaching staff where she played.

U can name plenty of players that didn get drafted from the same coach. It has more to do with the talent and work ethic of a player more than a coach in my opinion, a coach can motivate but it’s on the player to work and also have the talent. Just look Jordan Walker and Jasmine Franklin didn’t get drafted and they played for the same coach.

 

[Amb3096]

U can name plenty of players that didn get drafted from the same coach. It has more to do with the talent and work ethic of a player more than a coach in my opinion, a coach can motivate but it’s on the player to work and also have the talent. Just look Jordan Walker and Jasmine Franklin didn’t get drafted and they played for the same coach.

There's really not much correlation between player development and a player's likelihood of WNBA success. You can have a player like Gustaffson or Czinano who were excellent college players (Gustaffson was NPOY) and had very limited WNBA prospects because their game didn't translate to the next level. Conversely, you can have a player who didn't really show out much in college, but gets picked early in the draft becaues of potential (Soares).

 

[madtownvol]

When it’s phrased that way it seems Holly left the program in better shape than some want to admit. Her true evaluation of the company she’s in starts when her players Darby, Striplin, Sara and Justine are on the draft clock. She gets credit for the draft picks, so Holly should get credit for getting them here.

For the record (again), Kellie had to re-recruit Horston who was a free agent after Holly was fired. Kellie went one for two on player retention (Jordan yes, Evina no). Rickea Jackson is a Kellie recruit. Hollingshead is a Kellie recruit, as are Wells and Powell. The portal is still open and so there could be more names on that list.

 

[Majors]

For the record (again), Kellie had to re-recruit Horston who was a free agent after Holly was fired. Kellie went one for two on player retention (Jordan yes, Evina no). Rickea Jackson is a Kellie recruit. Hollingshead is a Kellie recruit, as are Wells and Powell. The portal is still open and so there could be more names on that list.

Just for simplicity, RJ came in WNBA ready, via MS State and stellar high school accolades…if somehow Hollingshead, Darby, Sara, Justine and Sara get drafted which I hope they all do, we can start the true CKH league list. By all means though see it through your way with “re-recruit” spin as that somehow supersedes of giving Holly credit for locking them in out of HS.

 

[Lawdawg]

For the record (again), Kellie had to re-recruit Horston who was a free agent after Holly was fired. Kellie went one for two on player retention (Jordan yes, Evina no). Rickea Jackson is a Kellie recruit. Hollingshead is a Kellie recruit, as are Wells and Powell. The portal is still open and so there could be more names on that list.

Players are recruiting each other nowadays.

 

[Majors]

Players are recruiting each other nowadays.

Valid point.. toss in NIL perks too. Different game, easier for some and harder for others.

 

[madtownvol]

Just for simplicity, RJ came in WNBA ready, via MS State and stellar high school accolades…if somehow Hollingshead, Darby, Sara, Justine and Sara get drafted which I hope they all do, we can start the true CKH league list. By all means though see it through your way with “re-recruit” spin as that somehow supersedes of giving Holly credit for locking them in out of HS.

There is nothing to be superseded. Holly left and Jordan was completely free to choose another coach and school, since she was a highly recruited player she had options but she decided to stay with Kellie/Tennessee. Nothing to debate here though I understand that is your MO.

Man you do love those goal posts - so we have moved from Kellie's recruits who are likely to be drafted into the WNBA to Kellie's recruits who were not ready for the pros when they cam into the program but then got drafted--that is when we start the "true kellie clock." It is getting a little complicated to maintain your narrative is it not?.

What is next, if say Justine or Hollingshead gets drafted, Kellie's recruits who were not ready for the WNBA and did not speak English upon entering program, when one of those goes on the clock then we can start the true Kellie list........

As for Rickea, interesting that she did not think she was WNBA ready and also noted how Kellie has helped her to add new dimensions to her game.

 

[madtownvol]

Players are recruiting each other nowadays.

Oh so that is why when Kellie did not sign any HS recruits for the 2023 class, everyone said, yeah that was all on the players. Oh wait absolutely no one said that because recruiting falls on the head coach.

How far will people stretch the bounds of logical reasoning to not give Kellie credit for anything.

 

[Dak1219]

Just for simplicity, RJ came in WNBA ready, via MS State and stellar high school accolades…if somehow Hollingshead, Darby, Sara, Justine and Sara get drafted which I hope they all do, we can start the true CKH league list. By all means though see it through your way with “re-recruit” spin as that somehow supersedes of giving Holly credit for locking them in out of HS.

Did Rae, Rennia or Jordan Horston come in "WNBA" ready? Kasi somehow found her way to an overseas pro job. Was she ready? Hell, Kasi wasn't even basketball ready until Kellie had her for 2 years yet now seams to be living the dream on a pro team seeing the world.

 

[Majors]

There is nothing to be superseded. Holly left and Jordan was completely free to choose another coach and school, since she was a highly recruited player she had options but she decided to stay with Kellie/Tennessee. Nothing to debate here though I understand that is your MO.

Man you do love those goal posts - so we have moved from Kellie's recruits who are likely to be drafted into the WNBA to Kellie's recruits who were not ready for the pros when they cam into the program but then got drafted--that is when we start the "true kellie clock." It is getting a little complicated to maintain your narrative is it not?.

What is next, if say Justine or Hollingshead gets drafted, Kellie's recruits who were not ready for the WNBA and did not speak English upon entering program, when one of those goes on the clock then we can start the true Kellie list........

As for Rickea, interesting that she did not think she was WNBA ready and also noted how Kellie has helped her to add new dimensions to her game.

Pretty sure my stance in the original was Holly left players, based on the rare company article. Those players left got drafted, you can revisit how it was worded…no movement and no debate. Holly recruiting classes got drafted…you chose to wordsmith and spin. I stated, Kellies true test starts when her recruiting classes get drafted. I also stated others wouldn’t admit Holly set up Kellie better than some would like to admit…and here you are.

RJ would have been a nice draft pick last night nobody blames her for coming back and getting paid better. With or without things to work on.

 

[Darth_Vol]

Yeah, not too sure many are going to see this and say, "Yeah, but Holly recruited her!" I'm sure you guys have them all on speed dail though.

Honestly, the drafting of Horston may be the worst possible example of the recruiting coach deserving credit over the coaching coach. You have to work really hard, plus not been watching the last 4 yrs, to not give Kellie Harper total and mass credit for what Jordan Horston has been able to accomplish.

Also, by the end of Holly, her players were being drafted for their potential, in spite of what she had done to them. Mercedes Russell.

So Holly-recruited players who played for Kellie and were drafted because of Kellie's coaching, meanwhile coaching had nothing to do with Harrison, DeShields, Russell, Nared, Reynolds, and others getting drafted...?

LOL keep moving those goal posts Kellie homer...

 

[Darth_Vol]

Horston was the #2 overall player and the top-rated guard in her recruiting class. Kellie developed her into a 0-time All-American and the 9th pick of her WNBA draft class.

Kellie is a clearly a talent-development guru...

 

[Majors]

Did Rae, Rennia or Jordan Horston come in "WNBA" ready? Kasi somehow found her way to an overseas pro job. Was she ready? Hell, Kasi wasn't even basketball ready until Kellie had her for 2 years yet now seams to be living the dream on a pro team seeing the world.

Show me the list of players at Missouri State CKH coached get drafted and you’ll have a better answer. Again, stating Holly left some players…RJ came in with SEC accolades from her prior.

 

[Lawdawg]

Oh so that is why when Kellie did not sign any HS recruits for the 2023 class, everyone said, yeah that was all on the players. Oh wait absolutely no one said that because recruiting falls on the head coach.

How far will people stretch the bounds of logical reasoning to not give Kellie credit for anything.

What? You can’t possibly disagree that players are recruiting players nowadays can you?

 

[madtownvol]

What? You can’t possibly disagree that players are recruiting players nowadays can you?

You know that is not the relevant issue.

Players have always played a role in recruiting. But when you say, "well playesr are recruiting players" in response to the fact that Rickea is a Kellie recruit, you make it seem as though the Head coach was incidental to Rickea's decision.

 

[PRG]

All of you Holly lovers need to get a grip on reality. Westbrook played for Holly for two years and obviously she wasn’t too excited about the coaching she was getting! And said so … Do you remember Diamond being forced to the bench while Holly was teaching her you could see the admiration that Diamond had for her !

Mercedes came in as the number 1 recruit and left the same way she came in !
Nared was a little better from when she came in and I will agree somebody helped Izzy!

The mindset to give Holly accolades for preparing our players for the WNBA seems a bit of a reach…. JMO

The thing that nobody wants to talk about is Holly’s recruits were free to leave when Kellie was hired ! Westbrook was leaving before Kellie got on campus and so was MiMi…. Kellie re-recruited Rennia who could have went to any team she wanted but stayed and improved. Rae was our local bull in a China shop but she also got better ! Jordy came in ranked #2 and could have went anywhere she wanted…. Took visits with Cooke (South Carolina) and Jackson (Miss State) and could have went and played with her friends but Kellie convinced her to stay ! All three of the last three years (pros) coming out of UT were improved by the coaching they received under Kellie ! You can say :Holly this… and Holly that … I’ve watched the years and players under the Holly years and I spent those years yelling at the TV and listening to her whistle and throwing her hands in the air saying I don’t know! And thankfully Kellie has put a team I enjoy watching on the floor! My wife doesn’t have to make up excuses to go shopping and the dog can come out from under the bed and watch the game with me in peace !