Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

[TrippieRedd]

Holly couldn't coach in game ..but you're rite she recruited very well....

Coaches better than Kellie.

Look at Kellie’s best recruits stats I just posted

I don’t care about how good their stats are this year through 5 games, 3 of which were against cupcakes

 

[Majors]

still do
that doesn't change who I am and how I post
I post as a coach, not a fan, persay
I will be tough on Kellie
bc coaching is what I know,
and right now, she has got to up her visibility

quit asking,,,start demanding and expecting.
Not saying "I need you guys to,,,,"...but..."I expect you guys to_____!"

You don’t get to play both sides. Many have been “tough” on Kellie for years because she’s in over her head and you labeled us negavol.

 

[knoxvol52]

Coaches better than Kellie.

Look at Kellie’s best recruits stats I just posted

I don’t care about how good their stats are this year through 5 games, 3 of which were against cupcakes

I don't like either damn coach...just saying HW couldn't coach in game either..
CKH can't do either one , recruit or coach....

 

[mike099]

Well if a great opportunity for someone they will come.... of course we need to not insist that candidate be a female and from the Pat Summit tree

The reason I stated Wes Moore would not leave NC state is it was reported he was approached after Holly was fired and was not interested in leaving NC State. Of course that could be false and we know that money can change a persons mind.

i doubt Tennessee would pay big money for a women’s basketball coach.

 

[TrippieRedd]

I don't like either damn coach...just saying HW couldn't coach in game either..
CKH can't do either one , recruit or coach....

Got rid of Holly because she failed to win 20 games her last season.

Kellie only won 17 in her 2nd. Should have been fired after that season.

 

[Majors]

The reason I stated Wes Moore would not leave NC state is it was reported he was approached after Holly was fired and was not interested in leaving NC State. Of course that could be false and we know that money can change a persons mind.

i doubt Tennessee would pay big money for a women’s basketball coach.

Nobody is interested unless they are the one with the offer. Bad business to say I’ll leave and no offer.

 

[Majors]

The reason I stated Wes Moore would not leave NC state is it was reported he was approached after Holly was fired and was not interested in leaving NC State. Of course that could be false and we know that money can change a persons mind.

i doubt Tennessee would pay big money for a women’s basketball coach.

Disagree. Tennessee will pay market value or better for a coach that brings big wins and fills up TBA. All coaches who are winning big are well compensated. Baseball team is getting a stadium overhaul with a long term investment into Tony because of what he did.

CKH makes over a million which would attract a big name coach with the salary increase.

 

[TrippieRedd]

If only Lisa Bluder was a few years younger, I’d say offer two million.

 

[glv98]

Just watched the postgame pressor and I just cannot pile on KJH today. She is completely gutted. I know how awful I feel about Rickea's injury pulling the plug on what was being built; I can only imagine how she feels. So tough to have the very worst thing that can happen to your team happen and resolving it is out of your control. No wonder she was curt, as Cora pointed out in her story.

And yes, yes, yes, I know play the hand you're dealt, next woman up, blah, blah, blah. But having the best player the program has had in 15 yrs erased is just a special brand of brutal. They correctly built this team and season around RJ now that evaporates right before the most crucial set of games in KJH tenure. With no end in sight.

Is KJH in over her head? Probably. Is she a total struggle bus on hs recruiting? Certainly. Have certain players reached their limited ceilings? Sadly. But no question critical injuries to her best players have pretty much cut the heart out of the last few seasons.

I just feel bad for her.

 

[Majors]

Got rid of Holly because she failed to win 20 games her last season.

Kellie only won 17 in her 2nd. Should have been fired after that season.

Holly has her jersey in the rafters. Loyalty shouldn’t be an issue at this point by fans and administrators.

 

[Go aeiou]

As a team compared to Indiana the LVs looked like the need to lose a few pounds. They just looked heavier and slower than Ind. It was most obvious playing D.

 

[Majors]

Just watched the postgame pressor and I just cannot pile on KJH today. She is completely gutted. I know how awful I feel about Rickea's injury pulling the plug on what was being built; I can only imagine how she feels. So tough to have the very worst thing that can happen to your team happen and resolving it is out of your control. No wonder she was curt, as Cora pointed out in her story.

And yes, yes, yes, I know play the hand you're dealt, next woman up, blah, blah, blah. But having the best player the program has had in 15 yrs erased is just a special brand of brutal. They correctly built this team and season around RJ now that evaporates right before the most crucial set of games in KJH tenure. With no end in sight.

Is KJH in over her head? Probably. Is she a total struggle bus on hs recruiting? Certainly. Have certain players reached their limited ceilings? Sadly. But no question critical injuries to her best players have pretty much cut the heart out of the last few seasons.

I just feel bad for her.

I don’t disagree as she’s knows she is handcuffed without RJ playing. With that said, this is the result of the bigger picture of lack of talent across the bench to compete. We have solid role players…her job as the coach is to put scheme together. Pearl was effective in year one by creating chaos with a less talented roster. Players diving, pressing and over out hustling their opponent. We don’t have that right now in year 5.

 

[glv98]

As a team compared to Indiana the LVs looked like the need to lose a few pounds. They just looked heavier and slower than Ind. It was most obvious playing D.

It's been acknowledged that it takes two offseasons for players to get in tip top shape. A couple of our transfers have only had one offseason, and definitely need another. We knew they would be weak links on D this season, since neither had been asked to play much D or get in prime shape before. Unfortunately, both are also among our best options on an offense just obliderated by the loss of the programs best offensive player in 15 yrs.

TK's conditioning is just struggling to take hold. While I do think she's moving a tiny bit better, a close up last night showed she was totally gassed after 3 trips up and down. Also, so hard to watch when TK falls, she is literally unable to get off the ground. Happened last game then again last night, while the game was going on around them, an IU player saw her struggling and helped her up. Class move on her part, but damn.

 

[TrippieRedd]

Just watched the postgame pressor and I just cannot pile on KJH today. She is completely gutted. I know how awful I feel about Rickea's injury pulling the plug on what was being built; I can only imagine how she feels. So tough to have the very worst thing that can happen to your team happen and resolving it is out of your control. No wonder she was curt, as Cora pointed out in her story.

And yes, yes, yes, I know play the hand you're dealt, next woman up, blah, blah, blah. But having the best player the program has had in 15 yrs erased is just a special brand of brutal. They correctly built this team and season around RJ now that evaporates right before the most crucial set of games in KJH tenure. With no end in sight.

Is KJH in over her head? Probably. Is she a total struggle bus on hs recruiting? Certainly. Have certain players reached their limited ceilings? Sadly. But no question critical injuries to her best players have pretty much cut the heart out of the last few seasons.

I just feel bad for her.

This is a prime example of an excuse.

That’s why you recruit. She chose to get some random Pitt player from the portal when she should have gotten someone that could have contributed, but for some reason 6.2 points and 1.7 rebounds was amazing. Build your team to be the best it can be. You answered it yourself though, she didn’t.

It’s on her. I don’t feel bad for her at all. Do a better job.

 

[volnationnj]

I agree.
Tennessee program and tradition is at the top of the pinnacle of WCBB.

They could hire any type of HC they want to. A proven winner, a young upcoming star, a professional coach from the WNBA.

If they invested in the search they could make a big time hire.

So, who is it that you would like to see hired ?

 

[MsSportsGuy]

I've not weighed in much on Harper specifically since her hire. I watched the start of this game when the LVs got behind and had these after what I saw:

Harper stopped the bleeding from Warlick. The program was trending downward and Harper was able to get it stable. Chemistry and attitudes are better overall among the players or at least appear to be. She is also a small, and I do mean small, upgrade on the in game coaching front but also has some sticking points related to erratic substitution patterns that seem to make zero sense to the average fan.

Harper has not been able to bring in the types of players Warlick did during her tenure. RJ is a star of course and Spear could be very good but her only true high school recruting class brought in a batch of very average players who aren't at the level UT needs to be competitive at a top 5-10 level. Since then she's been able to pull in nothing in the way of notable players who will put the program back towards the top. The portal is how many programs will be built going forward but some of those entries haven't exactly worked out as well as predicted. The LVs have rarely had players who are "fast" and the program seemed to place more emphasis on length, due to the rebouding mantra Summitt preached. That strategy stopped working years ago. They will still overpower some of their opponents this year but more team speed is needed. Once again I saw a decent yet not superstar level player torch the LVs from deep while on offense there appeared to be no strategy at all. Many of the shots taken on offense were poor ones, there were too many bad passes and literally no one who could be counted on to produce points or lead the team on the court when the ship was starting to sink.

It pains me to say this as a long time LV fan and supporter but starting year five, this is who Harper is. She's a mid range coach who will get mid range talent, largely win games they should, probably not hang with upper tier competition, and stay in the 15-25 range nationally if she can keep picking up portal pieces who can contribute.

This isn't a bad team, but rather a very average one. Average keeps you employed at a lot of places but it's not what the fans of the LVs expect.

 

[TrippieRedd]

I've not weighed in much on Harper specifically since her hire. I watched the start of this game when the LVs got behind and had these after what I saw:

Harper stopped the bleeding from Warlick. The program was trending downward and Harper was able to get it stable. Chemistry and attitudes are better overall among the players or at least appear to be. She is also a small, and I do mean small, upgrade on the in game coaching front but also has some sticking points related to erratic substitution patterns that seem to make zero sense to the average fan.

Harper has not been able to bring in the types of players Warlick did during her tenure. RJ is a star of course and Spear could be very good but her only true high school recruting class brought in a batch of very average players who aren't at the level UT needs to be competitive at a top 5-10 level. Since then she's been able to pull in nothing in the way of notable players who will put the program back towards the top. The portal is how many programs will be built going forward but some of those entries haven't exactly worked out as well as predicted. The LVs have rarely had players who are "fast" and the program seemed to place more emphasis on length, due to the rebouding mantra Summitt preached. That strategy stopped working years ago. They will still overpower some of their opponents this year but more team speed is needed. Once again I saw a decent yet not superstar level player torch the LVs from deep while on offense there appeared to be no strategy at all. Many of the shots taken on offense were poor ones, there were too many bad passes and literally no one who could be counted on to produce points or lead the team on the court when the ship was starting to sink.

It pains me to say this as a long time LV fan and supporter but starting year five, this is who Harper is. She's a mid range coach who will get mid range talent, largely win games they should, probably not hang with upper tier competition, and stay in the 15-25 range nationally if she can keep picking up portal pieces who can contribute.

This isn't a bad team, but rather a very average one. Average keeps you employed at a lot of places but it's not what the fans of the LVs expect.

How did she stop the bleeding when she hasn’t won anything?

If going from 3 elite 8s to a coach that hasn’t done a single thing besides giving us the lowest amount of wins in a single season in school history is stopping the bleeding, then yeah she’s done a hell of a job.

 

[LasVegasBill23]

The reason I stated Wes Moore would not leave NC state is it was reported he was approached after Holly was fired and was not interested in leaving NC State. Of course that could be false and we know that money can change a persons mind.

i doubt Tennessee would pay big money for a women’s basketball coach.

I heard also his name was bantered about but i thought that we were still hell bent at that time for 1. a woman..and 2. member of the "Pat" coaching tree

 

[glv98]

I've not weighed in much on Harper specifically since her hire. I watched the start of this game when the LVs got behind and had these after what I saw:

Harper stopped the bleeding from Warlick. The program was trending downward and Harper was able to get it stable. Chemistry and attitudes are better overall among the players or at least appear to be. She is also a small, and I do mean small, upgrade on the in game coaching front but also has some sticking points related to erratic substitution patterns that seem to make zero sense to the average fan.

Harper has not been able to bring in the types of players Warlick did during her tenure. RJ is a star of course and Spear could be very good but her only true high school recruting class brought in a batch of very average players who aren't at the level UT needs to be competitive at a top 5-10 level. Since then she's been able to pull in nothing in the way of notable players who will put the program back towards the top. The portal is how many programs will be built going forward but some of those entries haven't exactly worked out as well as predicted. The LVs have rarely had players who are "fast" and the program seemed to place more emphasis on length, due to the rebouding mantra Summitt preached. That strategy stopped working years ago. They will still overpower some of their opponents this year but more team speed is needed. Once again I saw a decent yet not superstar level player torch the LVs from deep while on offense there appeared to be no strategy at all. Many of the shots taken on offense were poor ones, there were too many bad passes and literally no one who could be counted on to produce points or lead the team on the court when the ship was starting to sink.

It pains me to say this as a long time LV fan and supporter but starting year five, this is who Harper is. She's a mid range coach who will get mid range talent, largely win games they should, probably not hang with upper tier competition, and stay in the 15-25 range nationally if she can keep picking up portal pieces who can contribute.

This isn't a bad team, but rather a very average one. Average keeps you employed at a lot of places but it's not what the fans of the LVs expect.

Good post, agree with all. KJH has stopped the cultural bleeding that occurred under Warlick and that was important.

BC Harper has struggled so mightily to get elite players, our thin (and apparently vain) hope that having a super elite like RJ would bring the wins that would bring the better players and get us out of this terrible cycle. But now that is gone, at least for now, and things look pretty bleak. Such a cruel, unfortunate blow.

 

[MsSportsGuy]

How did she stop the bleeding when she hasn’t won anything?

If going from 3 elite 8s to a coach that hasn’t done a single thing besides giving us the lowest amount of wins in a single season in school history is stopping the bleeding, then yeah she’s done a hell of a job.

Warlick's final team was tied for 8 in the SEC with a 7-9 conference record and lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament. Holly's two prior teams lost in round 2 of the NCAA tournament. Harper hasn't had a losing conference record, finished lower than 3 in the SEC, or lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament and has made two back to back S16s. That's an improvement even if small.

I didn't say she won anything, just that she stopped the bleeding. Things got worse annually under Warlick. With Harper there has been some progress even if less than exciting.

 

[Orange Maniac]

If only Lisa Bluder was a few years younger, I’d say offer two million.

Tell me you don’t keep up with women’s basketball without telling me you don’t keep up with women’s basketball.

 

[TrippieRedd]

Tell me you don’t keep up with women’s basketball without telling me you don’t keep up with women’s basketball.

Tell me you make bad financial decisions without telling me you make bad financial decisions

Get that Kellie juice off your lip

 

[Majors]

I've not weighed in much on Harper specifically since her hire. I watched the start of this game when the LVs got behind and had these after what I saw:

Harper stopped the bleeding from Warlick. The program was trending downward and Harper was able to get it stable. Chemistry and attitudes are better overall among the players or at least appear to be. She is also a small, and I do mean small, upgrade on the in game coaching front but also has some sticking points related to erratic substitution patterns that seem to make zero sense to the average fan.

Harper has not been able to bring in the types of players Warlick did during her tenure. RJ is a star of course and Spear could be very good but her only true high school recruting class brought in a batch of very average players who aren't at the level UT needs to be competitive at a top 5-10 level. Since then she's been able to pull in nothing in the way of notable players who will put the program back towards the top. The portal is how many programs will be built going forward but some of those entries haven't exactly worked out as well as predicted. The LVs have rarely had players who are "fast" and the program seemed to place more emphasis on length, due to the rebouding mantra Summitt preached. That strategy stopped working years ago. They will still overpower some of their opponents this year but more team speed is needed. Once again I saw a decent yet not superstar level player torch the LVs from deep while on offense there appeared to be no strategy at all. Many of the shots taken on offense were poor ones, there were too many bad passes and literally no one who could be counted on to produce points or lead the team on the court when the ship was starting to sink.

It pains me to say this as a long time LV fan and supporter but starting year five, this is who Harper is. She's a mid range coach who will get mid range talent, largely win games they should, probably not hang with upper tier competition, and stay in the 15-25 range nationally if she can keep picking up portal pieces who can contribute.

This isn't a bad team, but rather a very average one. Average keeps you employed at a lot of places but it's not what the fans of the LVs expect.

Good assessment, we have different issues now than what she was given. She might of stopped Holly’s bleeding while opening up her own. The program in year five isn’t in a better position than it was when she took over.

 

[Orange Maniac]

Tell me you make bad financial decisions without telling me you make bad financial decisions

Get that Kellie juice off your lip
View attachment 597629

Wow. You really got me there. I’ve only been going to the tournament for about 30 years. I support and cheer on the team. That doesn’t mean I support every move the administration makes as far as coaching decisions. The point being made was I don’t consider Bluder a good coach. Take away one superstar and she hasn’t done squat so why trade one underachiever for another and pay the new underachiever 2 million. Who would be the one making stupid financial choices then?

 

[Majors]

11-30 vs ranked opponents in 5 years? Is that accurate?