Lakers/Vols Knecht-ion

#152
#152
Knecht lost some $ falling to 17 but the 2nd contract is what it's all about. He's in a position to showcase his skills in the biggest spotlight possible on a team that needs and facilitates his skill set. He can easily make that $ back if he succeeds.
 
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#153
#153
GoodTimeVol said:
Knecht coming off the bench would be a travesty regardless of the minutes he gets…guy is a nba starter
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Not on the Lakers or any other playoff team. If you have rookies starting you're likely not in the playoffs or making it far. Yes there are exceptions to the rule. Knecht was drafted to be a shooter off the bench. If he develops his defense maybe I an couple years he is a starter.. but not likely unless the Lakers are tanking this year or get ravaged by injuries. Whose spot is is gonna take? Russel? Prince? Reeves? Cam Reddish? he is, at this point of his career not better than either of those guys and that's ignoring defense. He is going to have to beat out JHS (the wing they drafted last year at 17) for playing time.

The Lakers very rarely start young guys they put them through the system the first year or two (Caruso, Reeves, THT, JHS) then work them in year 2 or 3. Its been that way forever. Kobe Bryant himself only started 7 of his first 2 years (150 games) before becoming a starter in year 2. This is not a knock on DK if hed been drafted by the Spurs or Pistons or even Hornets he's likely a day 1 starter. But, on a contending team, he is depth as is almost every other rookie drafted. If he is a day one starter or starting more than half the games the Lakers are not making the playoffs. Not because DK is bad but because it means they have a lot of injuries.

That being said maybe JJ changes that? But personnel stuff in LA is above the coach's head for the most part. Even their own staff is chosen by the org. Maybe they have learned that does not work or JJ is the guy they trust to break the mold but not since Phil Jackson has a coach in LA had much say in his staff or personnel.
 
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#155
#155
I think it was Zack Lowe explained why Knecht fell so far. He didn't work out for most of the teams past 10 because everybody expected him to get picked. But the Pistons taking Ron Holland changed everybody's plans. Jazz were not expecting Cody Williams to be there. So the teams after the Jazz are thinking there are bad medicals on Knecht or something. They were scared to draft him because they thought there was something they didn't know about. Thus he falls all the way to 17.
 
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#156
#156
pimo1 said:
Not on the Lakers or any other playoff team. If you have rookies starting you're likely not in the playoffs or making it far. Yes there are exceptions to the rule. Knecht was drafted to be a shooter off the bench. If he develops his defense maybe I an couple years he is a starter.. but not likely unless the Lakers are tanking this year or get ravaged by injuries. Whose spot is is gonna take? Russel? Prince? Reeves? Cam Reddish? he is, at this point of his career not better than either of those guys and that's ignoring defense. He is going to have to beat out JHS (the wing they drafted last year at 17) for playing time.

The Lakers very rarely start young guys they put them through the system the first year or two (Caruso, Reeves, THT, JHS) then work them in year 2 or 3. Its been that way forever. Kobe Bryant himself only started 7 of his first 2 years (150 games) before becoming a starter in year 2. This is not a knock on DK if hed been drafted by the Spurs or Pistons or even Hornets he's likely a day 1 starter. But, on a contending team, he is depth as is almost every other rookie drafted. If he is a day one starter or starting more than half the games the Lakers are not making the playoffs. Not because DK is bad but because it means they have a lot of injuries.

That being said maybe JJ changes that? But personnel stuff in LA is above the coach's head for the most part. Even their own staff is chosen by the org. Maybe they have learned that does not work or JJ is the guy they trust to break the mold but not since Phil Jackson has a coach in LA had much say in his staff or personnel.
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I think there is a very good chance that Knecht is a starter this year and the Lakers are a playoff threat. I agree most rookies aren't winning players but he specifically fits into a playoff team in such a perfect way, filling a need they have, I wouldn't look at this like most rookie situations. There is a chance he just can't get up to game speed on the complicated defensive scheming his rookie year, but if he just knows where to be and when to switch, and doesn't slump shooting for whatever reason, he's the rare winning player as a rookie. He needs to make best friends with Austin Reaves and just learn as much as possible from him, because he picked it up quick.

Theoretically, if they are contenders at all, then their best lineup will be Lebron, Reaves, Knecht, Rui, and AD. I can't wait to see it.
 
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#157
#157
n_huffhines said:
I think there is a very good chance that Knecht is a starter this year and the Lakers are a playoff threat. I agree most rookies aren't winning players but he specifically fits into a playoff team in such a perfect way, filling a need they have, I wouldn't look at this like most rookie situations. There is a chance he just can't get up to game speed on the complicated defensive scheming his rookie year, but if he just knows where to be and when to switch, and doesn't slump shooting for whatever reason, he's the rare winning player as a rookie. He needs to make best friends with Austin Reaves and just learn as much as possible from him, because he picked it up quick.

Theoretically, if they are contenders at all, then their best lineup will be Lebron, Reaves, Knecht, Rui, and AD. I can't wait to see it.
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Hopefully Lakers can ship Russell out to another team in a trade. Some buzz that Warriors are going to give Chris Paul outright release, Lakers might be his destination. Could be a nice backup PG to work with Bronny on his game.
 
#158
#158
knoxvol52 said:
Hopefully Lakers can ship Russell out to another team in a trade. Some buzz that Warriors are going to give Chris Paul outright release, Lakers might be his destination. Could be a nice backup PG to work with Bronny on his game.
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IF chris paul came to the lakers he would not be on the bench
n_huffhines said:
I think there is a very good chance that Knecht is a starter this year and the Lakers are a playoff threat. I agree most rookies aren't winning players but he specifically fits into a playoff team in such a perfect way, filling a need they have, I wouldn't look at this like most rookie situations. There is a chance he just can't get up to game speed on the complicated defensive scheming his rookie year, but if he just knows where to be and when to switch, and doesn't slump shooting for whatever reason, he's the rare winning player as a rookie. He needs to make best friends with Austin Reaves and just learn as much as possible from him, because he picked it up quick.

Theoretically, if they are contenders at all, then their best lineup will be Lebron, Reaves, Knecht, Rui, and AD. I can't wait to see it.
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I think a lot of people don't get the transition from college to the NBA. The NBA is a lot about 1 on 1 matchups man defense... things that are not as common in college basketball. The rare rookies that start and excel in the NBA tend to be of the freak variety guys who can create their own shot or are such athletic freaks they can't be contained. That or they were on a bottom-barrel team that had to let them learn on the fly. If you look at the winners of rookie of the year since 2000 every one of them falls in that category.

SeasonPlayerTeamPointsReboundsAssists
2023-24Victor Wembanyama (1)San Antonio Spurs21.410.63.9
2022-23Paolo Banchero (1)Orlando Magic20.06.93.7
2021-22Scottie BarnesToronto Raptors15.37.53.5
2020-21LaMelo BallCharlotte Hornets15.75.96.1
2019-20Ja MorantMemphis Grizzlies17.83.97.3
2018-19Luka DoncicDallas Mavericks21.27.86.0
2017-18Ben SimmonsPhiladelphia 76ers15.88.18.2
2016-17Malcolm BrogdonMilwaukee Bucks10.22.84.2
2015-16Karl-Anthony Towns (1)Minnesota Timberwolves18.310.42.0
2014-15Andrew Wiggins (1)Minnesota Timberwolves16.94.62.1
2013-14Michael Carter-WilliamsPhiladelphia 76ers16.76.26.3
2012-13Damian LillardPortland Trail Blazers19.03.16.5
2011-12Kyrie Irving (1)Cleveland Cavaliers18.53.75.4
2010-11Blake GriffinLos Angeles Clippers22.512.13.8
2009-10Tyreke EvansSacramento Kings20.15.35.8
SeasonPlayerTeamPointsReboundsAssists
2008-09Derrick Rose (1)Chicago Bulls16.83.96.3
2007-08Kevin DurantSeattle Supersonics20.34.42.4
2006-07Brandon RoyPortland Trail Blazers16.84.44.0
2005-06Chris PaulNew Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets16.15.17.8
2004-05Emeka OkaforCharlotte Bobcats15.110.90.9
2003-04LeBron James (1)Cleveland Cavaliers20.95.55.9
2002-03Amar'e StoudemirePhoenix Suns13.58.81.0
2001-02Pau GasolMemphis Grizzlies17.68.92.7
2000-01Mike MillerOrlando Magic11.94.01.7

If you look at that list there are only 3 outliers to the rules set forth. Micheal Carter-Williams with the sixers in 2013-2014 (went on to become a journeyman 6 teams) and Mike Miller Magic 2000-2001 (also journeyman 7 teams). People keep saying it would be a travesty but none can say why? how does he beat out

Reeves starter/6th man at the 2
Dinwiddie competing for minutes
Prince split starts with reddish last season
Reddish split time with prince
Russel starter if he returns
Jalen Hood-Schafino first round pick last year at same spot as Knecht played a little over 100 minutes plays same role as Knecht
Vincent was brought in to start but was hurt
Christie developmental player that was getting minutes near the end


On the Lakers there are 2 spots he would be competing for and because of Lebron James, it gets weird positionally. Lebron, AD and Rui/Vanderbilt will be 3 of the starters and the other 2 will be 'guards' preferably floor spacing 3 and D guys. Knecht is short on the D part. The x factor here is JJ. Can he take Knect under his wing and mold him? Will the Lakers make a big move and get rid of Lemon Daddy or Russel for a big man? There is a chance Russel gets dealt but not sure who would be available for him? The people that are on the market are people that would certainly start over Knecht and wouldn't be traded for Russel for what the Lakers have to throw in with him. There is no planet where he starts over Russel or Reeves. Its highly unlikely he starts over Prince, Vincent, Dinwiddie or Reddish if they return healthy. JHS and Christie have 1 and 2 years respectively in the system being developed and are both 21 and are +defenders. Knecht has a long road and a lot of competition to start.
 
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#161
#161
A 39 year old Chris Paul isn't starting over AR15 or DeAngelo Russell at PG.
 
#162
#162
pimo1 said:
IF chris paul came to the lakers he would not be on the bench

I think a lot of people don't get the transition from college to the NBA. The NBA is a lot about 1 on 1 matchups man defense... things that are not as common in college basketball. The rare rookies that start and excel in the NBA tend to be of the freak variety guys who can create their own shot or are such athletic freaks they can't be contained. That or they were on a bottom-barrel team that had to let them learn on the fly. If you look at the winners of rookie of the year since 2000 every one of them falls in that category.

SeasonPlayerTeamPointsReboundsAssists
2023-24Victor Wembanyama (1)San Antonio Spurs21.410.63.9
2022-23Paolo Banchero (1)Orlando Magic20.06.93.7
2021-22Scottie BarnesToronto Raptors15.37.53.5
2020-21LaMelo BallCharlotte Hornets15.75.96.1
2019-20Ja MorantMemphis Grizzlies17.83.97.3
2018-19Luka DoncicDallas Mavericks21.27.86.0
2017-18Ben SimmonsPhiladelphia 76ers15.88.18.2
2016-17Malcolm BrogdonMilwaukee Bucks10.22.84.2
2015-16Karl-Anthony Towns (1)Minnesota Timberwolves18.310.42.0
2014-15Andrew Wiggins (1)Minnesota Timberwolves16.94.62.1
2013-14Michael Carter-WilliamsPhiladelphia 76ers16.76.26.3
2012-13Damian LillardPortland Trail Blazers19.03.16.5
2011-12Kyrie Irving (1)Cleveland Cavaliers18.53.75.4
2010-11Blake GriffinLos Angeles Clippers22.512.13.8
2009-10Tyreke EvansSacramento Kings20.15.35.8
SeasonPlayerTeamPointsReboundsAssists
2008-09Derrick Rose (1)Chicago Bulls16.83.96.3
2007-08Kevin DurantSeattle Supersonics20.34.42.4
2006-07Brandon RoyPortland Trail Blazers16.84.44.0
2005-06Chris PaulNew Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets16.15.17.8
2004-05Emeka OkaforCharlotte Bobcats15.110.90.9
2003-04LeBron James (1)Cleveland Cavaliers20.95.55.9
2002-03Amar'e StoudemirePhoenix Suns13.58.81.0
2001-02Pau GasolMemphis Grizzlies17.68.92.7
2000-01Mike MillerOrlando Magic11.94.01.7

If you look at that list there are only 3 outliers to the rules set forth. Micheal Carter-Williams with the sixers in 2013-2014 (went on to become a journeyman 6 teams) and Mike Miller Magic 2000-2001 (also journeyman 7 teams). People keep saying it would be a travesty but none can say why? how does he beat out

Reeves starter/6th man at the 2
Dinwiddie competing for minutes
Prince split starts with reddish last season
Reddish split time with prince
Russel starter if he returns
Jalen Hood-Schafino first round pick last year at same spot as Knecht played a little over 100 minutes plays same role as Knecht
Vincent was brought in to start but was hurt
Christie developmental player that was getting minutes near the end


On the Lakers there are 2 spots he would be competing for and because of Lebron James, it gets weird positionally. Lebron, AD and Rui/Vanderbilt will be 3 of the starters and the other 2 will be 'guards' preferably floor spacing 3 and D guys. Knecht is short on the D part. The x factor here is JJ. Can he take Knect under his wing and mold him? Will the Lakers make a big move and get rid of Lemon Daddy or Russel for a big man? There is a chance Russel gets dealt but not sure who would be available for him? The people that are on the market are people that would certainly start over Knecht and wouldn't be traded for Russel for what the Lakers have to throw in with him. There is no planet where he starts over Russel or Reeves. Its highly unlikely he starts over Prince, Vincent, Dinwiddie or Reddish if they return healthy. JHS and Christie have 1 and 2 years respectively in the system being developed and are both 21 and are +defenders. Knecht has a long road and a lot of competition to start.
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Malcolm Brogdon did way less than I would expect Knecht to do if things go right, and he was not an athletic freak on a playoff team and didn't put up big numbers. ROY is the worst award because it rarely goes to a winning player like that. I'm not sure how we got onto ROY. I'm just saying he could be a starter.

Lakers have a lot of guys but so few are shooters which is what they desperately need. They were not happy at all with most of the people you named. Prince could have a bounce back year. Reddish, Christie, Smith Schifino and Dinwiddie are not the asnwers for the 2024-25 team. Vincent's career is not great. He had one nice playoff, so I don't expect much from him. D-Lo is too often a liability. That's the scenario.
 
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#164
#164
n_huffhines said:
He might, but he won't play more minutes.
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CP3 would play the same role in LA as he did with the Warriors. Because of Lebron there is no real role for a pure point. Paul would run the second team. He ain't coming to LA
 
#165
#165
VolsSportsFan said:
I think it's a nice story that a father gets to play with his son. But it's so manufactured. Maybe Bronny works into a solid NBA player, I don't know but it's hard to take any of this really seriously other than it will be a cool moment if they ever get on the court at the same time.

Some of the ESPN social media hype aside, I think the vast majority knows this is exactly what it looks like.
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It’s also not that unusual. Giannis’s brother “plays” for the bucks for instance. The people getting worked up over this are just looking for an excuse to be mad.
 
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#166
#166
n_huffhines said:
Malcolm Brogdon did way less than I would expect Knecht to do if things go right, and he was not an athletic freak on a playoff team and didn't put up big numbers. ROY is the worst award because it rarely goes to a winning player like that. I'm not sure how we got onto ROY. I'm just saying he could be a starter.

Lakers have a lot of guys but so few are shooters which is what they desperately need. That's the scenario.
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if you think for a single second that IF the Lakers got Brogdon Knecht or Reeves or even Russel would start over him you need help.
 
#169
#169
Col_Cathcart said:
It’s also not that unusual. Giannis’s brother “plays” for the bucks for instance. The people getting worked up over this are just looking for an excuse to be mad.
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Its rarely as blatant as in the case of Giannis and Lebron but all teams do this to a certain extent. Whether its giving a training camp invite to a friend, hiring on their personal trainer. NBA rosters have 15 roster spots plus 3 2-ways. Those last 4 spots almost always contain at least one instance of nepotism whether direct or indirect. Someone that's a relative or close friend of someone important in the organization. Don't believe me? Lets check what Woj has to say. Woj fires back at Bronny James nepotism complaints: ‘The NBA is full of nepotism’
 
#170
#170
pimo1 said:
Its rarely as blatant as in the case of Giannis and Lebron but all teams do this to a certain extent. Whether its giving a training camp invite to a friend, hiring on their personal trainer. NBA rosters have 15 roster spots plus 3 2-ways. Those last 4 spots almost always contain at least one instance of nepotism whether direct or indirect. Someone that's a relative or close friend of someone important in the organization. Don't believe me? Lets check what Woj has to say. Woj fires back at Bronny James nepotism complaints: ‘The NBA is full of nepotism’
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It's ridiculous for Woj to excuse this and chastise us because nepotism exists. It's not that big of a deal and it's not that big of a deal to call it what it is.
 
#171
#171
n_huffhines said:
It's ridiculous for Woj to excuse this and chastise us because nepotism exists. It's not that big of a deal and it's not that big of a deal to call it what it is.
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He is not excusing anything. He is stating facts. It is what it is. For the Lakers to do so is a smart business decision and a good team decision. Same for the Bucks. the Lakers and Bucks are much better teams with Bronny and Thanasis sitting at the end of the bench and Lebron and Giannis at the front than they would be without Bron and Giannis and whatever second-round player would be not playing at the end of the bench Bronny and Thanisis took. Its not like Bronny was not draftable. Had his agent not literally called and told teams not to draft Bronny and not done workouts with anyone but the Lakers and Suns (the team that had the pick after the Lakers) Bronny would have legit been drafted slightly earlier. he is NBA second round talent. He proved it in the combine.
 
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#172
#172
n_huffhines said:
So was Ginobili but sometimes strategy matters more than labels
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A thing most people miss is that most NBA 6th men often play starters minutes and tend to start a good number of games based on matchups. Also 6th men get awards, raises and All-Star votes the 3rd, 4th and 5th starters rarely do.

TLDR version. A 6th man makes more money than a 4th or 5th starter.
 
#173
#173
pimo1 said:
He is not excusing anything. He is stating facts. It is what it is. For the Lakers to do so is a smart business decision and a good team decision. Same for the Bucks. the Lakers and Bucks are much better teams with Bronny and Thanasis sitting at the end of the bench and Lebron and Giannis at the front than they would be without Bron and Giannis and whatever second-round player would be not playing at the end of the bench Bronny and Thanisis took. Its not like Bronny was not draftable. Had his agent not literally called and told teams not to draft Bronny and not done workouts with anyone but the Lakers and Suns (the team that had the pick after the Lakers) Bronny would have legit been drafted slightly earlier. he is NBA second round talent. He proved it in the combine.
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The two are not mutually exclusive.
 
#174
#174
pimo1 said:
He is not excusing anything. He is stating facts. It is what it is. For the Lakers to do so is a smart business decision and a good team decision. Same for the Bucks. the Lakers and Bucks are much better teams with Bronny and Thanasis sitting at the end of the bench and Lebron and Giannis at the front than they would be without Bron and Giannis and whatever second-round player would be not playing at the end of the bench Bronny and Thanisis took. Its not like Bronny was not draftable. Had his agent not literally called and told teams not to draft Bronny and not done workouts with anyone but the Lakers and Suns (the team that had the pick after the Lakers) Bronny would have legit been drafted slightly earlier. he is NBA second round talent. He proved it in the combine.
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Yeah no he didn’t “prove” it at a combine, nobody buys that at all
 
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