Lakers/Vols Knecht-ion

[GoodTimeVol]

You obviously didn't follow the combine very closely.

It’s a combine, basketball is played 5 on 5

 

[pimo1]

The two are not mutually exclusive.

He is not saying hey this has happened before a few times so we should overlook it. He is saying it is what it is. This is not like something that happens sometimes it is the norm.

It's like if you were to take exception that the sky was not currently blue on your day at the beach. I could point out that its about to storm...That is not an excuse that's a statement of something that should be quite obvious from all the other signs. Nepotism has been an integral part of the NBA since day 1. We probably only have a few years to go until the next Barry gets drafted

 

[TheMookieMonster]

It’s really annoying that NBA Shop has Bronny James jerseys already available to purchase but not Knecht. I mean come on. Good grief.

 

[pimo1]

Beyond all these arguments. I am beyond happy DK is a Laker and think he is going to play an integral role in this season and many seasons to come. I started watching sports because of the Lakers (Magic) then the Niners and then the Vols.

 

[kckempf]

if you think for a single second that IF the Lakers got Brogdon Knecht or Reeves or even Russel would start over him you need help.

I don't think he's comparing Knecht as a rookie to Brogdon today. Brogdon got rookie of the year averaging 10 points a game on 40% 3-point shooting. Those are realistic numbers for Knecht.

 

[pimo1]

I don't think he's comparing Knecht as a rookie to Brogdon today. Brogdon got rookie of the year averaging 10 points a game on 40% 3-point shooting. Those are realistic numbers for Knecht.

ehh look at what other rookies did that year lol. His biggest competition was Joel Embid who only played 31 games (3rd place) and Dario Saric (2nd) who both played for the terrible that year sixers. Not a knock against Brogdon, that was just a weird year. Also Embid was actually a second-year player since he missed his actual rookie year. Brogdon was a 2nd round pick that made a big contribution on the bucks when Giannis was emerging as a force. Kris Middleton got injured and Brogdon stepped in and he won rookie of the year based on his defense not his offense the only other rookies that averaged ver 10 points a game were Saric and Embid. Points don't always tell the whole story. Defense was his calling card as a rookie not offense.

Knecht wont win Rookie of the Year scoring 10 points a game period. If he averaged 15 he wouldn't be in the conversation. He is a scorer period if he is not putting up 20+ a game which won't happen he's not in the conversation. ROY will come down to Alex Sarr or Edey barring weird injuries that force other guys to play more than expected. Edey will average a double-double just by existing. Alex Sarr plays for the Wizards he will be enjoying the unlimited putbacks from the Poole party.

 

[kckempf]

ehh look at what other rookies did that year lol. His biggest competition was Joel Embid who only played 31 games (3rd place) and Dario Saric (2nd) who both played for the terrible that year sixers. Not a knock against Brogdon, that was just a weird year. Also Embid was actually a second-year player since he missed his actual rookie year. Brogdon was a 2nd round pick that made a big contribution on the bucks when Giannis was emerging as a force. Kris Middleton got injured and Brogdon stepped in and he won rookie of the year based on his defense not his offense the only other rookies that averaged ver 10 points a game were Saric and Embid. Points don't always tell the whole story. Defense was his calling card as a rookie not offense.

Knecht wont win Rookie of the Year scoring 10 points a game period. If he averaged 15 he wouldn't be in the conversation. He is a scorer period if he is not putting up 20+ a game which won't happen he's not in the conversation. ROY will come down to Alex Sarr or Edey barring weird injuries that force other guys to play more than expected. Edey will average a double-double just by existing. Alex Sarr plays for the Wizards he will be enjoying the unlimited putbacks from the Poole party.

Edey will barely get to 10 minutes a game, provided he makes the roster. Sarr isn't going to put up numbers that remind us of Doncic, Wembanyama, or Banchero either.

 

[pimo1]

Edey will barely get to 10 minutes a game, provided he makes the roster. Sarr isn't going to put up numbers that remind us of Doncic, Wembanyama, or Banchero either.

To expect any rookie to put up numbers like Luka and Wemby did is crazy.. they put up historic numbers. Wemby almost (and should have) won defensive player of the year. Banchero played for the Magic a team that's so uniformly bad that a rookie on their team is almost always gonna be in rookie of the year conversations just like the Wizards and Hornets. How you think Edey will not get 10 mins a game is kinda weird. Maybe you are thinking because he's a big man he cant play a lot of minutes like most really big guys... he ain't that guy.... he averaged over 30 a game the past 2 years and 26 for his career. Also, he has no competition for those minutes in Memphis. They drafted him at 9 not 49. his only competition for minutes at center on the roster is Trey Jenison a UDFA second year player from UAB you've never heard of and won't again after this year..

Do you guys just spout off random crap not knowing anything about the rosters you're speaking on? I could get if this was like some random team but its Memphis being from Tennessee you should maybe know they are DESPERATE for a center because they literally don't have one on the roster. Their only other options at the center are their PF's Jaren Jackson and Santi Aldama all 215 pounds of him. Steven Adams, their starter last year who could easily be described as Edey-lite is gone to Houston. If Edey was 6 inches shorter and a worse shooter he'd be Steven Adams. Even if he was still on the roster Edey would start over him and Steven Adams is no scrub.

 

[kckempf]

To expect any rookie to put up numbers like Luka and Wemby did is crazy.. they put up historic numbers. Wemby almost (and should have) won defensive player of the year. Banchero played for the Magic a team that's so uniformly bad that a rookie on their team is almost always gonna be in rookie of the year conversations just like the Wizards and Hornets. How you think Edey will not get 10 mins a game is kinda weird. Maybe you are thinking because he's a big man he cant play a lot of minutes like most really big guys... he ain't that guy.... he averaged over 30 a game the past 2 years and 26 for his career. Also, he has no competition for those minutes in Memphis. They drafted him at 9 not 49. his only competition for minutes at center on the roster is Trey Jenison a UDFA second year player from UAB you've never heard of and won't again after this year..

Do you guys just spout off random crap not knowing anything about the rosters you're speaking on? I could get if this was like some random team but its Memphis being from Tennessee you should maybe know they are DESPERATE for a center because they literally don't have one on the roster. Their only other options at the center are their PF's Jaren Jackson and Santi Aldama all 215 pounds of him. Steven Adams, their starter last year who could easily be described as Edey-lite is gone to Houston. If Edey was 6 inches shorter and a worse shooter he'd be Steven Adams. Even if he was still on the roster Edey would start over him and Steven Adams is no scrub.

Wemby, Doncic, and Banchero are the only recent ROY who scored more than 20 points per game. The others were between 10 and 20, where this year's leader will be.

 

[OrangeInKy]

Great, now I have to be a Lakers fan.

Well, the way players get traded in the NBA, I doubt he’s there long term .

 

[VeeOhElEsYes]

It’s really annoying that NBA Shop has Bronny James jerseys already available to purchase but not Knecht. I mean come on. Good grief.

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[pimo1]

Wemby, Doncic, and Banchero are the only recent ROY who scored more than 20 points per game. The others were between 10 and 20, where this year's leader will be.

Love how you try to exaggerate with half truths. Most ROY winners are in the 15-18 ppg range its fairly rare for them to be outside of that. Yes over 20 is quite rare and as mentioned above Wemby and Doncic had historic years but at the same time they also had insane competition. But all 3 you named had something else in common they played on awful team where they were easily the best players on their team from day 1. DK wont even be the 4th best player on this team.

The guys that win rookie of the year are rarely superstars btw. For every Dame Lillard there is a Micheal Carter-Williams. For every Luka there is an Emeka Okafor for each Kyrie theres a Ben Simmons or Andrew Wiggins. Most superstars start out as role players. Kobe, Giannis, Gilbert Arenas, Jalen Brunson, Curry the list goes on. Its fine to be a roleplayer and learn from legends.

 

[Col_Cathcart]

He is not saying hey this has happened before a few times so we should overlook it. He is saying it is what it is. This is not like something that happens sometimes it is the norm.

It's like if you were to take exception that the sky was not currently blue on your day at the beach. I could point out that its about to storm...That is not an excuse that's a statement of something that should be quite obvious from all the other signs. Nepotism has been an integral part of the NBA since day 1. We probably only have a few years to go until the next Barry gets drafted

It’s also not unique to the NBA. Companies resolve 3 body problems by hiring spouses all the time. My mechanic got his screwup younger brother a job at the shop. Think about all the friends and family you see doing bad acting on local commercials. It’s everywhere because the meritocracy is a myth. It’s always been about who you know instead of what you know.

 

[n_huffhines]

ehh look at what other rookies did that year lol. His biggest competition was Joel Embid who only played 31 games (3rd place) and Dario Saric (2nd) who both played for the terrible that year sixers. Not a knock against Brogdon, that was just a weird year. Also Embid was actually a second-year player since he missed his actual rookie year.

What is even the point of any of this? Nobody said Knecht would be ROY, but since you are talking about it, I promise you Brogdon didn't even have ROY odds and Knecht has 5th best. You got the wrong draft, BTW. Brogdon was competing with Jaylen Brown, Brandon Ingram, and Jamal Murray for ROY.

You really think one of these rookies is doing much better than 15 ppg? It's a weak class. Only 3 guys did it last year and they would have been universally viewed as the top 3 picks of this draft. Sarr would have been the 8th pick last year, probably.

 

[n_huffhines]

Love how you try to exaggerate with half truths. Most ROY winners are in the 15-18 ppg range its fairly rare for them to be outside of that.

What are you talking about? You just said Knecht wouldn't be in the conversation at 15 ppg.

You are the one saying wild **** and acting like we don't know what we're talking about.

You can say whatever you want, but he has 5th best odds, tied with Edey.

 

[n_huffhines]

Most superstars start out as role players. Kobe, Giannis, Gilbert Arenas, Jalen Brunson, Curry the list goes on. Its fine to be a roleplayer and learn from legends.

Kobe and Giannis weren't role players. They were developmental players. Arenas ain't even a superstar, but he started his career as a starting PG, so doesn't seem true. Curry was not a role player. Wth. He averaged 18 and 6 as a starting rookie

If you start a role player, it's hard to break out of that into superstardom. Kawhi Leonard is not the norm. He's the exception to the rule. Brunson is another exception to the rule.

The nice thing about Knecht is he is a prospect who can be a good role player and maybe a #3 option someday. Most guys are not built like that. Lots of stars can't be good role players.

 

[Lukusw]

I don't like the Lakers. I don't like Lebron (but mad respect for him--all time great player). That being said, I don't think the Lakers are a bad landing spot for DK.

I don't expect him to start. But i think he will get some minutes. Won't have to do too much right away. JJ Redick is a shooter who knows the X's & O's really well (at least on offense), as does Lebron. That is to DKs benefit instead of being on a "roll the ball out there, go isolation and make something happen" team. Also, at any given time, he will be the 3rd or 4th offensive option. That gives him time to acclimate to the NBA.

Lebron can be a hard teammate, but I think DK will be fine because 1) he's skilled enough and 2) he's shown he's teachable and won't get caught up in ego (e.g. like Reeves, who Lebron kinda took under his wing). I don't know how good JJ will be as a coach, but he has the potential to be a perfect mentor for DK. Offensively, DK is a really good pickup for them. If he can break even on defense, his minutes will increase through the season.

 

[knoxvol52]

LeBron helped make Austin Reaves and Alex Caruso desirable players in NBA.

 

[kckempf]

I don't like the Lakers. I don't like Lebron (but mad respect for him--all time great player). That being said, I don't think the Lakers are a bad landing spot for DK.

I don't expect him to start. But i think he will get some minutes. Won't have to do too much right away. JJ Redick is a shooter who knows the X's & O's really well (at least on offense), as does Lebron. That is to DKs benefit instead of being on a "roll the ball out there, go isolation and make something happen" team. Also, at any given time, he will be the 3rd or 4th offensive option. That gives him time to acclimate to the NBA.

Lebron can be a hard teammate, but I think DK will be fine because 1) he's skilled enough and 2) he's shown he's teachable and won't get caught up in ego (e.g. like Reeves, who Lebron kinda took under his wing). I don't know how good JJ will be as a coach, but he has the potential to be a perfect mentor for DK. Offensively, DK is a really good pickup for them. If he can break even on defense, his minutes will increase through the season.

The biggest barrier for Knecht this year is going to be getting playing time, either because his defense is still improving or because he would be competing with Reaves for playing time at that position. When he's on the floor with AD and LeBron he will be going up against a 3rd or 4th defender, and teams might be forced to stash their center against him if they get him involved in pick and roll action.

That's what's going to make Edey's transition so hard, too. He's rarely run the pick and roll in college, is not an especially good driver (in contrast to NBA centers like Porzingis), and he's too slow to keep up with guards on pick and roll defense. Maybe they'll find a way to keep him out of that action but I don't think it's going to be easy, especially if they try to give him starter minutes. As he is now he's slower than Luke Kornet, with better post moves but worse outside shooting.

 

[Col_Cathcart]

LeBron helped make Austin Reaves and Alex Caruso desirable players in NBA.

Caruso is going to be an absolute perfect fit for the Thunder. Can’t believe they pulled that trade off only sending Giddy to Chicago.

 

[pimo1]

Kobe and Giannis weren't role players. They were developmental players. Arenas ain't even a superstar, but he started his career as a starting PG, so doesn't seem true. Curry was not a role player. Wth. He averaged 18 and 6 as a starting rookie

If you start a role player, it's hard to break out of that into superstardom. Kawhi Leonard is not the norm. He's the exception to the rule. Brunson is another exception to the rule.

The nice thing about Knecht is he is a prospect who can be a good role player and maybe a #3 option someday. Most guys are not built like that. Lots of stars can't be good role players.

Kobe was a role player, Giannis was a role player until they were not and no Gilbert Arenas did not start as a PG lol he rode deep on Golden states bench and got quite a few DNP's before getting 30 starts out of 47 games as a rookie. A developmental player does not play 20 mins a game. A developmental player is what the Lakers did with THT, Caruso, Reeves and last year JHS. those are developmental players you hope you get something out of them and they earn a chance. The Lakers always planned to play Kobe regular minutes from day 1 but they had Eddie Jones and until he beat him out Eddie was the starter. Same story with Giannis. Teams that plan to compete don't spend first-rounders on developmental players. Out side of Magic the Lakers have rarely ever given a rookie a starting job off the bat. I have been a diehard Lakers fan since the early 80's It how the organization has been run no matter the coaching staff.

 

[pimo1]

The biggest barrier for Knecht this year is going to be getting playing time, either because his defense is still improving or because he would be competing with Reaves for playing time at that position. When he's on the floor with AD and LeBron he will be going up against a 3rd or 4th defender, and teams might be forced to stash their center against him if they get him involved in pick and roll action.

That's what's going to make Edey's transition so hard, too. He's rarely run the pick and roll in college, is not an especially good driver (in contrast to NBA centers like Porzingis), and he's too slow to keep up with guards on pick and roll defense. Maybe they'll find a way to keep him out of that action but I don't think it's going to be easy, especially if they try to give him starter minutes. As he is now he's slower than Luke Kornet, with better post moves but worse outside shooting.

I dont think Reeves is who he will be competing for playing time with. They play totally different roles. The current Lakers are a weird team especially because of Lebron. They are kind of the roadmap for positionless basketball. The main guys on roster now he would be competing for playing time with are Taurean Prince and Cam Reddish. Russell opted in so he's back barring a trade The rumors are the Lakers are trying to get Klay (super unlikely) but if that happens any chances of Knecht starting go to 0. The next few weeks are gonna get interesting with the Paul George Signing to the sixers. Teams, especially in the east, are gonna be scrambling now because that signing along with Kelly Oubre make them scary in the east. Tobias Harris may be getting traded..that could lead to moves by the Lakers because a 3-way sign and trade type situation is about the only way they get in on a name.

 

[n_huffhines]

Kobe was a role player, Giannis was a role player until they were not and no Gilbert Arenas did not start as a PG lol he rode deep on Golden states bench and got quite a few DNP's before getting 30 starts out of 47 games as a rookie. A developmental player does not play 20 mins a game. A developmental player is what the Lakers did with THT, Caruso, Reeves and last year JHS. those are developmental players you hope you get something out of them and they earn a chance. The Lakers always planned to play Kobe regular minutes from day 1 but they had Eddie Jones and until he beat him out Eddie was the starter. Same story with Giannis. Teams that plan to compete don't spend first-rounders on developmental players. Out side of Magic the Lakers have rarely ever given a rookie a starting job off the bat. I have been a diehard Lakers fan since the early 80's It how the organization has been run no matter the coaching staff.

What is a role player to you? It sounds like you just think it's a bench guy. That's not right. What even was Kobe's role, then?

For a guard, a role player is a 3 and D guy, or a defensive stopper who can be an extra ball handler, or a heat check 6th man where all he can do is provide offensive spark against mostly bench players. That's kind of it. Those are the roles. Rookie Kobe was tasked with developing all of those things. Kobe was 2nd on the team in shots per minute his rookie year, again, because he was a developmental player.

Starting 30 out of 47 gets you the label starter. Being a bench player doesn't make you a role player. Being a starter doesn't make you a star. Your role is what makes you a role player, or a star, or a developmental player. These are not role player numbers for Arenas. These are combo guard running the show numbers.

 

[kckempf]

I dont think Reeves is who he will be competing for playing time with. They play totally different roles. The current Lakers are a weird team especially because of Lebron. They are kind of the roadmap for positionless basketball. The main guys on roster now he would be competing for playing time with are Taurean Prince and Cam Reddish. Russell opted in so he's back barring a trade The rumors are the Lakers are trying to get Klay (super unlikely) but if that happens any chances of Knecht starting go to 0. The next few weeks are gonna get interesting with the Paul George Signing to the sixers. Teams, especially in the east, are gonna be scrambling now because that signing along with Kelly Oubre make them scary in the east. Tobias Harris may be getting traded..that could lead to moves by the Lakers because a 3-way sign and trade type situation is about the only way they get in on a name.

The big reason I see Reaves and Knecht competing for minutes is that they’re a similar size, with Russell taking up the only smaller position on the floor. Reaves can play more point offensively than Knecht but they’re both too small to switch on PF (Lakers have at times played without guards with Lebron able to play the point).

 

[pimo1]

What is a role player to you? It sounds like you just think it's a bench guy. That's not right. What even was Kobe's role, then?

For a guard, a role player is a 3 and D guy, or a defensive stopper who can be an extra ball handler, or a heat check 6th man where all he can do is provide offensive spark against mostly bench players. That's kind of it. Those are the roles. Rookie Kobe was tasked with developing all of those things. Kobe was 2nd on the team in shots per minute his rookie year, again, because he was a developmental player.

Starting 30 out of 47 gets you the label starter. Being a bench player doesn't make you a role player. Being a starter doesn't make you a star. Your role is what makes you a role player, or a star, or a developmental player. These are not role player numbers for Arenas. These are combo guard running the show numbers.


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A role player is a person who actually plays regular minutes. the 6th 7th 8th man. A developmental player is someone that you get in when you can during blowouts end of games but they mostly are getting dnp's. As far as Gilbert Arenas goes.. looking up stats is misleading. I was actually following the Warriors during the time because he was a player I liked. Gil ended up falling into the second round because he got the attitude problem' tag. It was mostly over him refusing to do a treadmill run during a workout because there was no first place. He was in the tryouts and wanted to be number 1 in everything and when they told him everyone just did 18 minutes and that was it he was like nah... He had no idea it was just to make sure they didn't have heart issues. He has talked about it many times and has talked about his rookie year a lot also. Gilbert Arenas got his opportunity to play because his teammates (specifically Antawn Jamison) went to the organization and told them to play him. He was buried on the bench getting DNP's and trash minutes until then. As soon as they gave him a chance he went off. Kobe was stuck behind Eddie Jones for 2 years.. Once they decided he was the guy they traded Eddie to the Hornets midseason. 2 years later championship.

Context matters. Gil only played 47 of 82 games and started only 30 of those.. he was not injured sir. He did not get playing time because anyone else got injured either. He had to earn his spot over Larry Hughes. It's not like the Warriors had some awesome point guard either.. the only other real PGs they had on roster that year were Mookie Blaylock and Bob Sura. Those 2 combined for 5 starts. Hughes was the starting point guard most of the year even though he was definitely a 2. they had 4 guys that were all-star caliber players and 3 spots to play them at. Hughes, Jamison, Richardson and Arenas. Hughes and Jamison were vets Richardson was the #5 pick that year and Gil was the second-rounder/odd man out. Yes once Gil got his chance he went nuts with it but it took halfway through the season for him to get that chance.

Since you wanna use basketball reference lets use it right.. here are his game logs for that year