Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

[0nelilreb]

You mean executive orders which are routinely challenged by courts, is the equivalent to a POTUS declaring absolute power?

Some weak, deflective whatabout tea, bro.

No I mean the EO that a POTUS absolutely doesn’t have the power to do ( create immigration laws) . If that’s weak I don’t know why we are complaining about what Trump says . You are afraid he may, might, possibly, somehow , someway take over the entire government but it’s crickets when a POTUS actually makes a police that he has zero power to make . Please .. get outta here with that fake outrage .

 

[samanderson]

Reporters holding him accountable for his actual quotes and him calling them fake when they are 100% irrefutably not.

Thank you. His intolerance of reality permeates his entire demeanor.

 

[luthervol]

Luther, we've been over this. When both parties nominate horrible people, one of those horrible people is going to win. I know you wanted your horrible person to win, but she didn't.

Of course we've been over this.
We'll obviously go over this many more times.
There has been and will always be a percentage of people who feel any particular POTUS is horrendously despicable.
However, there is a higher percentage who feel that way about Trump than any previous president.
He establishes a new low. A low that will never again be approached.

 

[allvol123]

Of course we've been over this.
We'll obviously go over this many more times.
There has been and will always be a percentage of people who feel any particular POTUS is horrendously despicable.
However, there is a higher percentage who feel that way about Trump than any previous president.
He establishes a new low. A low that will never again be approached.

We've literally had rapists hold the office. Might want to recalibrate.

 

[Weezer]

not at all

Obama claims a pen and phone and the right loses their minds. Trump claims absolute power and it's just words. Funny

One more thing on this. When Obama claimed his pen and phone, how many on the left condemned that? How many on this board said he was wrong? As compared to everyone on this board agreeing Trump is wrong.

 

[BeecherVol]

The question you should ask is how do we prevent it.

But, you would start complaining that Trump is being unfairly picked on, if I told you the obvious answer. The second involves someone who just reaffirmed the President's assertion. The third is just ignoring the problem and hoping the authoritarian leaders don't interfere with the people's remedy.

Just 3 weeks ago you had members of the house drafting a letter.

“To effectively slow COVID-19’s spread, we must issue a shelter-in-place order for the entire country lasting at least two weeks, excepting only travel for essential services like grocery stores and health care providers,” the letter reads. “There is no doubt that an action of this magnitude will temporarily disrupt daily lives and cause short-term economic pain, but it will help prevent an extended outbreak and response that could plunge us deep into a long-lasting recession”

The letter represents one of the first calls by elected officials for nationwide measures to stem the outbreak. President Trump has resisted issuing national quarantine orders, saying on Monday that the U.S. is not “built to be shut down.” State governments have imposed various restrictions on public gatherings and businesses based on the level of outbreak in their jurisdictions.

“A state-by-state, locality-by-locality approach is not enough,” the letter signatories wrote. “Without action, the U.S. could end up like Italy, Spain, or worse.”

Zachary Evans, (NR) Mar 24, 2020

Its interesting how things change.

 

[luthervol]

You do make that obvious.

Don't we all.

 

[utvolpj]

One more thing on this. When Obama claimed his pen and phone, how many on the left condemned that? How many on this board said he was wrong? As compared to everyone on this board agreeing Trump is wrong.

Almost all thought Obama was wrong. There may have been a couple of wingnut holdouts. Same is going on now by claiming it's just words not an act.

"He's wrong but..." is a common phrase in these situations

 

[TennTradition]

He estimated 1/2 to 2/3 of UK deaths from Covid are people that would have died by the end of the year regardless of covid

Wouldn't you imagine that flu also has a lot of these deaths as well (sidebar)?

That number seems oddly high - unless the only people who are getting tested and confirmed positive were already gravely ill.

If you look at mortality rates of 75-84 year olds with major cardiovascular disease it is 1,400 per 100k population. That seems like quite a major risk category.

-----------------------

Let's do some math with this. The deaths that have occurred through today are more reflective of the cases recorded through a day in the past. Let's say that is 7 days ago (you die 7 days after getting your positive diagnosis). I think that's conservative. Time to death post-onset of symptoms averages about 17 days, I believe. If you go get your test on day 3 of symptoms and it takes 5 days to get the result back, then you are a confirmed positive 9 days before death. I'll use 7 to add a little extra conservatism.

7 days ago the total cases was 350k. Total deaths are at 23.5k.

-------------------------

If we assume all 350k are 75-84 year olds and we assume that they all got infected 6 weeks ago when we started having deaths (ridiculously conservative), at 1,400 deaths / year / 100k, we would expect 565 deaths. Now, old people with heart disease isn't the only demographic at risk of dying. But I'm saying everyone who has been diagnosed falls in this bucket - it would seem to overly-capture this "high risk" effect. And in that case in the US you would just have 565 deaths expected over that period from that at-risk group, with no impact from CV19. Over the course of this entire year (52 - 14 weeks = 38 weeks), you would expect deaths to look more like 3,600 more deaths .... or a total of 3.2k lets say. And that is assuming that every person that tested positive fits this high death rate demographic! That's something like 12% of recorded deaths.

So, I have a hard time coming up with anything close to 1/2 of the deaths would have died anyway this year.

But, I don't have detailed data on the stats of each person with a positive test and the details on the deaths. For the US or for the UK. I just try to make sense of numbers I hear and I'm having a hard time with that one.

 

[allvol123]

Almost all thought Obama was wrong. There may have been a couple of wingnut holdouts. Same is going on now by claiming it's just words not an act.

"He's wrong but..." is a common phrase in these situations

Signed orders >>>>>>>>>> spoken words

 

[DinkinFlicka]

I'll be honest, i have no problem with you as a person and never have. I do think your persona is a bit exaggerated, but that's a message board poster for you.

Unfortunately, it's not. I am a loudmouth, vulgar, boisterous, bean stalk who cares very little for lip service. A few posters here have met me before and will echo this.

I think you, like most liberals, come from an emotional and "life isn't fair" standpoint instead of a logical or rational way of thinking.

A few ex girlfriends of mine would gladly refute this. Lol. I've been called lizard-brained more times than I want to admit. I'm gonna chalk this up to your having no tangible proof of these accusations that I'm a lefty. I'm not. I probably want smaller government than you.

Also, i could care less

Couldn't*

It just sounds so dumb saying could.

The issue i have with liberals/Democrats is they simply try to portray EVERYONE who disagrees with their positions as some kind of evil person,
Against abortion? you want women to die!
For Voter IDs? you want black people to be in chains!
Against illegal immigration? you want kids to starve and be shot in their own countries!

How often does the right do the same?

Gay marriage? Adam and Even not Adam and Steve!
Abortion? Baby killers!
Illegals? Rapists and murderers!

As far as Trump, do you just delete the Obama years and the hairbrained obsessions that came with it?

Reggie Love?
Barry Sotoero?
Michelle Obama being a man?
He was a Muslim?

it's ridiculous, because the empaths and emotionally "life isnt fair" side doesnt understand that most conservatives/libertarians agree on helping actually fixing issues, it's just they disagree on doing the same insane things we have tried that don't work.

Sure, most conservatives do. Republicans are not conservatives, however.

Why do you find your Dad's work as a defense attorney more "honorable" than as a D.A.? I agree that exposing dirty cops or actually helping someone innocent is great, but again he actively worked to help guilty felons and those who rape, hurt, and steal from people free...THAT is not honorable, imagine helping a child rapist get out of jail.

Everyone deserves a defense. You're tripping up on your own rules and using emotional language to fortify your argument here. You were literally just sitting on empathy and here you are taking the worst scenario of child rape and using it as an argument. Lol.

There's no honor in turning the courthouse into a sentencing factory. Their lone objective is to expedite every single case so everyone is off work by 2. Defense attorney's general job is to not let the system bury the guilty, and to get the innocent freed. It's totally honorable to do the job that few step up to do. It is a fundamental quality in our legal system to give someone the best defense they can get. Court won't appoint a good one. He took a lot of pro-bono cases since police work in West TN isn't exactly glimmering in its reputation.

 

[RockyTop85]

So he could be within his legal rights or he could be overstepping and the courts will have to decide ? Sounds like a plan .

I also predict this will age well.

 

[0nelilreb]

Almost all thought Obama was wrong. There may have been a couple of wingnut holdouts. Same is going on now by claiming it's just words not an act.

"He's wrong but..." is a common phrase in these situations

Him claiming is now the same as another POTUS taking action ? Come on man .

 

[rjd970]

Almost all thought Obama was wrong. There may have been a couple of wingnut holdouts. Same is going on now by claiming it's just words not an act.

"He's wrong but..." is a common phrase in these situations

Exactly. Obama was wrong. Trump was wrong. What is so hard about that?

There is not "My guy is wrong, but....". No - he's wrong. Period.

 

[volbeast33]

You mean executive orders which are routinely challenged by courts, is the equivalent to a POTUS declaring absolute power?

Some weak, deflective whatabout tea, bro.

I think actions is worse than words...... Trump says a lot of stuff..... it is his way of controlling the message..... none of it matters until he actually acts on it.

 

[allvol123]

Wouldn't you imagine that flu also has a lot of these deaths as well (sidebar)?

That number seems oddly high - unless the only people who are getting tested and confirmed positive were already gravely ill.

If you look at mortality rates of 75-84 year olds with major cardiovascular disease it is 1,400 per 100k population. That seems like quite a major risk category.

-----------------------

Let's do some math with this. The deaths that have occurred through today are more reflective of the cases recorded through a day in the past. Let's say that is 7 days ago (you die 7 days after getting your positive diagnosis). I think that's conservative. Time to death post-onset of symptoms averages about 17 days, I believe. If you go get your test on day 3 of symptoms and it takes 5 days to get the result back, then you are a confirmed positive 9 days before death. I'll use 7 to add a little extra conservatism.

7 days ago the total cases was 350k. Total deaths are at 23.5k.

-------------------------

If we assume all 350k are 75-84 year olds and we assume that they all got infected 6 weeks ago when we started having deaths (ridiculously conservative), at 1,400 deaths / year / 100k, we would expect 565 deaths. Now, old people with heart disease isn't the only demographic at risk of dying. But I'm saying everyone who has been diagnosed falls in this bucket - it would seem to overly-capture this "high risk" effect. And in that case in the US you would just have 565 deaths expected over that period from that at-risk group, with no impact from CV19. Over the course of this entire year (52 - 14 weeks = 38 weeks), you would expect deaths to look more like 3,600 more deaths .... or a total of 3.2k lets say. And that is assuming that every person that tested positive fits this high death rate demographic! That's something like 12% of recorded deaths.

So, I have a hard time coming up with anything close to 1/2 of the deaths would have died anyway this year.

But, I don't have detailed data on the stats of each person with a positive test and the details on the deaths. For the US or for the UK. I just try to make sense of numbers I hear and I'm having a hard time with that one.

Do you consider him a highly competent and respected epidemiologist?

 

[0nelilreb]

I also predict this will age well.

I hope it ages well , this is how our system operates . Wouldn’t you agree?

 

[Stew Cook]

No I mean the EO that a POTUS absolutely doesn’t have the power to do ( create immigration laws) . If that’s weak I don’t know why we are complaining about what Trump says . You are afraid he may, might, possibly, somehow , someway take over the entire government but it’s crickets when a POTUS actually makes a police that he has zero power to make . Please .. get outta here with that fake outrage .

So, our president is several orders of magnitude more delusional than any previous president. declaring "absolute authority" but the outrage is fake.

Your lack of outrage is fake, or just complacent.

It's would be one thing to shut down interstate travel between certain states during a pandemic, which many were asking him to do. Whatever crap he's trying to do now, which I can only interpret as he claims the authority to override the safety and security measures of the states, is going a bit too far.

But, you know "the country only opens back up when he says, so" How do you interpret that?

 

[1972 Grad]

That depends. What did the travel ban achieve and what was it supposed to achieve?

It was red meat for us racists.

 

[Weezer]

Almost all thought Obama was wrong. There may have been a couple of wingnut holdouts. Same is going on now by claiming it's just words not an act.

"He's wrong but..." is a common phrase in these situations

Weird. I don't recall leftist posters agreeing Obama was wrong. Anyone else remember that?

Everyone has agreed Trump is wrong. No one's arguing it. The only argument is apparently we aren't vociferous enough in our saying he's wrong. I'm sure if he tries to act on it, we'll see more of an uproar. Until then, it's just an idiotic incorrect statement. And everyone has agreed on that.

 

[utvolpj]

No I mean the EO that a POTUS absolutely doesn’t have the power to do ( create immigration laws) . If that’s weak I don’t know why we are complaining about what Trump says . You are afraid he may, might, possibly, somehow , someway take over the entire government but it’s crickets when a POTUS actually makes a police that he has zero power to make . Please .. get outta here with that fake outrage .

Trump diverted defense funds for immigration and that seemed OK with his followers

 

[utvolpj]

Weird. I don't recall leftist posters agreeing Obama was wrong. Anyone else remember that?

Well I was called a pelosi/biden follower this morning by a very informed poster and I thought Obama was wrong. Did that count?

 

[0nelilreb]

So, our president is several orders of magnitude more delusional than any previous president. declaring "absolute authority" but the outrage is fake.

Your lack of outrage is fake, or just complacent.

It's would be one thing to shut down interstate travel between certain states during a pandemic, which many were asking him to do. Whatever crap he's trying to do now, which I can only interpret as he claims the authority to override the safety and security measures of the states, is going a bit too far.

But, you know "the country only opens back up when he says, so" How do you interpret that?

First .. he can’t just “ shut down interstate travel “ he’d have to declare martial law . Second .. I’ve already said he can’t do what he said he can , POTUS does not have and can not get absolute power . He can shut down the country but he can’t open it back up . For ever move there’s a counter .. a check and a balance .

 

[0nelilreb]

Trump diverted defense funds for immigration and that seemed OK with his followers

Was that legal to do ?

 

[luthervol]

Ehhh, give me an example of a POTUS doing anything like that. This response is kind of lazy and getting old.

It's not normal behavior; by any standard.