Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

[AshG]

The sequencing of 4 positively charged amino acids in a row in this virus proves that it isn't from nature. That doesn't occur in nature.

We've actually known for a while that it is possible for four positively charged amino acids to line up in nature, particularly in nucleoplasmin.

Kalderon D, Roberts BL, Richardson WD, Smith AE (1984). "A short amino acid sequence able to specify nuclear location". Cell. 39 (3 Pt 2): 499–509. doi:10.1016/0092-8674(84)90457-4. PMID 6096007

 

[allvol123]

I doubt covid behaves any differently from any other virus. The three week asymptomatic spread was likely fear mongering. It took about 3/4ths of the year to finally hit most of the US in peak respiratory virus season. That doesn't sound that contagious to me. And I really only know a hand full of people who got it, and nobody but people who knew people who died.

This virus was probably like every other cold, just good at taking out 80 year old, overweight, lifelong smokers.

Mostly this.

I lived the experiment. Work at a business with a 250 person workforce. We took only 2 weeks off. No one ever wore masks or social distanced. We had infections spread between april of 2020 all they way to last month. There was never a massive outbreak.

 

[norrislakevol]

We've actually known for a while that it is possible for four positively charged amino acids to line up in nature, particularly in nucleoplasmin.

Kalderon D, Roberts BL, Richardson WD, Smith AE (1984). "A short amino acid sequence able to specify nuclear location". Cell. 39 (3 Pt 2): 499–509. doi:10.1016/0092-8674(84)90457-4. PMID 6096007

From 1984?

Seems as if the most recent data would be more relevant.

 

[LouderVol]

From 1984?

Seems as if the most recent data would be more relevant.

The argument was what nature does. I doubt nature changed how viruses work between 84 and now.

 

[norrislakevol]

The argument was what nature does. I doubt nature changed how viruses work between 84 and now.

I guess scientists knew more in 1984. The scientists these days know less it seems. Technology was much better back then too for them to be able to research this correctly. Trust the science!

 

[utvolpj]

I guess scientists knew more in 1984. The scientists these days know less it seems. Technology was much better back then too for them to be able to research this correctly. Trust the science!

What he just demonstrated was that the thing you called impossible was known to happen back in 1984. It's likely still known now to anyone you should consider a valid source on the subject

 

[AshG]

Reading through all the back and forth information has been, dare I say, fun. And I don't just mean here; I couldn't sleep, and have been through around 40 articles, journals, abstracts, trying to sift the wheat from the chaff and get a solid handle on where we are right now.

I am really glad I didn't go to grad school for biochemistry. But, I digress.

My opinion: I believe at this point, based on available evidence, that the virus likely was leaked from the lab (I can't say accidentally or on purpose) but has natural origins. This is subject to change as reliable information comes to light.

Foundations for my opinion:

The absolute best walkthrough of every possible viewpoint is in MIT Technology Review. It's long, but it's thorough, extremely well balanced, and is one of the easiest reads of everything I've poured through. If you actually care about the discussion going on in here, it's a must-read.

The scientists who say the lab-leak hypothesis for SARS-CoV-2 shouldn't be ruled out

If you're on the fence about the "bombshell report" that "unequivocally proves" Covid 19 was made in a lab, this article discusses some of the reasons why you're not finding the two doctors' research trending on all the major international outlets. This link includes a direct link to the original source article written by the researchers.

Was COVID-19 Made in a Lab? An Epidemiologist Reviews The Evidence

A brief quote: "The first point to note about this paper is that it is really bizarre. The authors claim that their argument provides sufficient evidence to "reverse the burden of proof", which just isn't how logic works at all.

In fact, the paper doesn't even claim to demonstrate that COVID-19 was created in a lab, it just posits the theory and then says that others should disprove this theory because it is so "parsimonious"."

 

[LouderVol]

I guess scientists knew more in 1984. The scientists these days know less it seems. Technology was much better back then too for them to be able to research this correctly. Trust the science!

Amino acids arent some new wave unproven hypothesis.

A scientific source was provided that debunked the unscientific claim about amino acids.

Maybe you have some of this new science that debunks the 84 research? Or at least a virologist who backs up the claim about no 4 strand amino acids?

Right now this seems like the same bs argument the coronabros having been using. Disguise an appeal to something other than science, as science.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Unfortunately, anecdotal information doesn't fly in the medical community. There's significant data showing little efficacy in treating an established infection.

I also don't recall it being in the cocktail treatment received by Trump at Walter Reed. If it has such a celebrated level of efficacy, you'd think that would have been the first thing they went for.

Doctors who have treated patients using things like HCQ have been silenced. If you choose to believe otherwise, then that’s on you.

 

[AshG]

From 1984?

Seems as if the most recent data would be more relevant.

Ok, I'll find something a little closer to now.

Rotello et al. compared the nuclear localization efficiencies of eGFP fused NLSs of SV40 Large T-Antigen, nucleoplasmin (AVKRPAATKKAGQAKKKKLD), EGL-13 (MSRRRKANPTKLSENAKKLAKEVEN), c-Myc (PAAKRVKLD) and TUS-protein (KLKIKRPVK) through rapid intracellular protein delivery. They found significantly higher nuclear localization efficiency of c-Myc NLS compared to that of SV40 NLS.

Quantitative tracking of protein trafficking to the nucleus using cytosolic protein delivery by nanoparticle-stabilized nanocapsules

 

[norrislakevol]

Amino acids arent some new wave unproven hypothesis.

A scientific source was provided that debunked the unscientific claim about amino acids.

Maybe you have some of this new science that debunks the 84 research? Or at least a virologist who backs up the claim about no 4 strand amino acids?

Right now this seems like the same bs argument the coronabros having been using. Disguise an appeal to something other than science, as science.

Explosive study claims to prove Chinese scientists created COVID

These scientists disagree with the 1984 data.

“The laws of physics mean that you cannot have four positively charged amino acids in a row,” Dalgleish told the Daily Mail. “The only way you can get this is if you artificially manufacture it.”

 

[AshG]

Explosive study claims to prove Chinese scientists created COVID

These scientists disagree with the 1984 data.

“The laws of physics mean that you cannot have four positively charged amino acids in a row,” Dalgleish told the Daily Mail. “The only way you can get this is if you artificially manufacture it.”

Show me where in their research they directly address the both the 1984 and 2015 studies I linked. The onus is on them to directly address and disprove, not merely present alternative information, in order for their position to be considerable.

 

[Orangeburst]

From 1984?

Seems as if the most recent data would be more relevant.

1984! Yikes

 

[LouderVol]

Explosive study claims to prove Chinese scientists created COVID

These scientists disagree with the 1984 data.

“The laws of physics mean that you cannot have four positively charged amino acids in a row,” Dalgleish told the Daily Mail. “The only way you can get this is if you artificially manufacture it.”

Your article contradicts itself. Its says there is a small chance, and then it says there is no chance. Which is it?

 

[NCFisher]

So have I. You can make it work. I am sure Howie Mandell has some Youtube pointers. Wiping the door with your dingus germ covered hands is not a good answer.

This conversation reminds me of a girl I dated sometime ago. One morning as everyone was stirring in bed, her sister was shouting at her boyfriend who had just come out from taking a leak to wash his hands.
I told her he should dutifully do so then come out and say “now put this in your mouth.”

 

[NorthDallas40]

Former.

And cancelling all of our debts to Chinese entities would be a start.

So this touches on an interesting option.

Let’s say it is proven without a doubt that China caused this and the US presents its case on the world stage. If Germany pays the world for WWII reparations then it’s not a hard sell to make a case China owes the world reparations here. No way China agrees to pay it. So the US just declares worthless every T bill they own. China can’t flood the market as the US would not honor them. And it crushes China’s economy. The rest of the world follows suit and China’s finance strangle hold on the world is ended in one fell swoop.

Ok course from the VF article bham is publishing it looks more and more like we’d be on the hook for reparations too as we funded it. Plus… it would no doubt start World War III . But something like this is what it would take to hold China accountable.

 

[McDad]

accidental escape my ass

I have had a few of those in my lifetime. Feels like my body betrayed me when it happens.

 

[AshG]

Explosive study claims to prove Chinese scientists created COVID

These scientists disagree with the 1984 data.

“The laws of physics mean that you cannot have four positively charged amino acids in a row,” Dalgleish told the Daily Mail. “The only way you can get this is if you artificially manufacture it.”

I've got to hammer on this again. My brain won't let the piss poor science rest.

First of all, 1/3 of all human proteins have four positively charged amino acids in a row.

The Shape and Structure of Proteins - Molecular Biology of the Cell - NCBI Bookshelf

Second, if it violates the laws of physics (which it obviously doesn't, or we'd be dead given the days above) then it wouldn't be able to be manufactured in a lab either. Violating a law of physics means it's not a law of physics.

 

[McDad]

Does it make a difference that Ash's resources are discussing cells (living) and norrislake's are discussing viruses (not living)? Microbiology was almost 30 years ago for me. But I do not recall the similarities of a cell wall and a virus coating.

 

[luthervol]

Explosive study claims to prove Chinese scientists created COVID

These scientists disagree with the 1984 data.

“The laws of physics mean that you cannot have four positively charged amino acids in a row,” Dalgleish told the Daily Mail. “The only way you can get this is if you artificially manufacture it.”

I highlighted the pertinent information.

 

[McDad]

nm

 

[AshG]

Ok course from the VF article bham is publishing it looks more and more like we’d be on the hook for reparations too as we funded it.

I would actually say we'd be safe. The funding line for gain of function research was a general line, not a specific line for SARS-CoV-2. The US could easily make a case that would move our participation out of legal standing should that kind of trial occur.

China, on the other hand, has had significant and documented issues with the Wuhan lab not following its own procedures or meeting its own standards for containment practices. It has the filtration equipment and deactivation materials of the top labs in the world, but has on several occasions seen this bypassed by human error.

 

[NorthDallas40]

I would actually say we'd be safe. The funding line for gain of function research was a general line, not a specific line for SARS-CoV-2. The US could easily make a case that would move our participation out of legal standing should that kind of trial occur.

China, on the other hand, has had significant and documented issues with the Wuhan lab not following its own procedures or meeting its own standards for containment practices. It has the filtration equipment and deactivation materials of the top labs in the world, but has on several occasions seen this bypassed by human error.

It would still get attacked and most countries would use it to back their preconceived view on the issue.

 

[luthervol]

nm

Some messengers are known to be untrustworthy.

 

[AshG]

It would still get attacked and most countries would use it to back their preconceived view on the issue.

We're not the only country with money in the pot, though. The Wuhan lab is the international epicenter for this line of research because of its proximity to the cave systems where SARS family virii are thought to have originated and made the jump to humans. If finger pointing is going to happen, it's going to be a First World standoff with everyone pointing around the circle.