Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

#97,851
#97,851
DC_Vol said:
@NorthDallas40 @allvol123 @MG1968

This has been a very interesting discussion and has made me think harder about where I stand on this.

At first glance, I would oppose any type of commerce restriction based on vaccine status. It’s nobody’s business and if someone is concerned about it, wear PPE.

What if airlines, gasoline retailers, or power providers cut people off for not getting the jab?

On the other hand, a business owner should be free to do business with whomever he or she wants. And should have the right to set the terms with their customers.

I think after thinking harder about it, I’d agree with allvol and hog.

But I can understand anyone who doesn’t feel that way. And also think it’s a bad idea to categorize someone based off their position on one issue. There is definitely a lot of gray here.
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It is an interesting discussion. It’s even more shocking that the rube @hog88 initiated it 😂.

I think businesses should have a great deal of latitude in determining who comes into their property. And I absolutely want them to have as much freedom as possible to display their ****** ideology so I can chose to take my business elsewhere.

No shoes no shirt no service is perfectly fine by me. But I just believe there are limits. What is your athletes foot history so I can determine what kind of shoe I’ll let you wear on my property is over the line.

But yeah it’s a gray area I’d agree.
 
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#97,852
#97,852
DC_Vol said:
What if airlines, gasoline retailers, or power providers cut people off for not getting the jab?
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It's absurd that cruise lines can't make a business decision to screen passengers, to avoid having outbreaks. We all know the bad publicity a ship gets if a bunch of people get sick onboard.
 
#97,853
#97,853
Velo Vol said:
It's absurd that cruise lines can't make a business decision to screen passengers, to avoid having outbreaks. We all know the bad publicity a ship gets if a bunch of people get sick onboard.
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to play Devil's Advocate - what all should they be able to screen them for?
 
#97,854
#97,854
DC_Vol said:
@NorthDallas40 @allvol123 @MG1968

This has been a very interesting discussion and has made me think harder about where I stand on this.

At first glance, I would oppose any type of commerce restriction based on vaccine status. It’s nobody’s business and if someone is concerned about it, wear PPE.

What if airlines, gasoline retailers, or power providers cut people off for not getting the jab?

On the other hand, a business owner should be free to do business with whomever he or she wants. And should have the right to set the terms with their customers.

I think after thinking harder about it, I’d agree with allvol and hog.

But I can understand anyone who doesn’t feel that way. And also think it’s a bad idea to categorize someone based off their position on one issue. There is definitely a lot of gray here.
Click to expand...

Individual liberty vs. individual privacy

I’m all for private entities setting their own barriers to access. I’m also all for an individual deciding which private details they want to keep private and which ones they share. Hogg wants the freedom to discriminate because he thinks it will shine a light on bad actors who’ve had to stay hidden for fear of lawsuits and other forms of reprisal.

On the other hand, I see no downside to an individual not wanting to share private, medical information with another person or business if that information is not relevant to the transaction. My vaccine status is of no concern to the proprietor of McScrooge’s Liquor. It is relevant to Medic Regional Blood Center.

My conservative credentials aren’t in any danger here. Hogg, however is venturing into huff’s anarcho-capitalist island. Which isn’t a bad thing, but it isn’t conservative.
 
#97,855
#97,855
Why not let it be a matter of capitalism? If you dont want to wear shoes or provide vaccination card, then you pay a 5-10% surcharge.

Person still gets to choose, and actually has more options to how they engage; business gets to discriminate while being open at the same time.

It's what I want to see for some of the ridiculous contracts and various agreements in order to use their product. Here's 10% more leave me the eff alone.
 
#97,856
#97,856
hog88 said:
No a business does not deserve to access your personal health information. A business does deserve the right to refuse you service if you don't provide it upon request. Everyone has choices that way.
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How about terminating employment?
 
#97,857
#97,857
MG1968 said:
What happens when a business owner doesn’t check IDs before selling alcohol? If they “want it that way” it should be ok, right?

What I’m getting at is that absent a federal law, a business owner can’t discriminate based on the health record of a patron. At least not without facing a lawsuit.
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This Chinese Flu debacle is gonna generate thousands of them... wait and see. Lawyers are gonna clean up.
 
#97,858
#97,858
MG1968 said:
It’s also amazing how many so called conservatives voted for Trump and defended his protectionist trade policies.

Yet here we are.
Click to expand...
Interesting. So you prefer a government that doesn't have America's interests at heart? You'd be good with raising the corporate tax rate to 28% like doofus wants to do?
 
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#97,860
#97,860
SpaceCoastVol said:
Interesting. So you prefer a government that doesn't have America's interests at heart? You'd be good with raising the corporate tax rate to 28% like doofus wants to do?
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Binary argument is binary. I can be against trade protectionism and support lower corporate tax rates.
 
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#97,861
#97,861
SpaceCoastVol said:
Interesting. So you prefer a government that doesn't have America's interests at heart? You'd be good with raising the corporate tax rate to 28% like doofus wants to do?
Click to expand...

It worries me that I hold Diamond Medallion status with Delta and I'm being ferried around by a pilot who lacks the ability to think critically.

How can you take one statement from @MG1968 or anyone else and make such assumptions. When will you guys learn that belief in one thing not beget a belief in another; stop foisting these dichotomies of "with us or against us" and your argument will instantly be more credible.
 
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#97,862
#97,862
LouderVol said:
Why not let it be a matter of capitalism? If you dont want to wear shoes or provide vaccination card, then you pay a 5-10% surcharge.

Person still gets to choose, and actually has more options to how they engage; business gets to discriminate while being open at the same time.

It's what I want to see for some of the ridiculous contracts and various agreements in order to use their product. Here's 10% more leave me the eff alone.
Click to expand...

Well there is this little law that protects your health information abbreviated as HIPAA.

Your Rights Under HIPAA

Read this and tell me where it says a business that I patronize has any right to see my health records?
 
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#97,863
#97,863
MG1968 said:
Binary argument is binary. I can be against trade protectionism and support lower corporate tax rates.
Click to expand...
If there are lower corporate tax rates, the jobs will stay here therefore both would be accomplished. The Man of Dementia wants to kill both with one stone.
 
#97,864
#97,864
MG1968 said:
Individual liberty vs. individual privacy

I’m all for private entities setting their own barriers to access. I’m also all for an individual deciding which private details they want to keep private and which ones they share. Hogg wants the freedom to discriminate because he thinks it will shine a light on bad actors who’ve had to stay hidden for fear of lawsuits and other forms of reprisal.

On the other hand, I see no downside to an individual not wanting to share private, medical information with another person or business if that information is not relevant to the transaction. My vaccine status is of no concern to the proprietor of McScrooge’s Liquor. It is relevant to Medic Regional Blood Center.

My conservative credentials aren’t in any danger here. Hogg, however is venturing into huff’s anarcho-capitalist island. Which isn’t a bad thing, but it isn’t conservative.
Click to expand...

True my views aren't conservative they are liberal because in classical sense liberals stood for individual liberty and conservatives stood for state.

What you are missing is by barring a business from asking for proof of vaccine, or baring it from discriminating against xyz you are taking away the individual right free association from the owner. I wouldn't patronize a business that would require proof of being vaccinated or one that discriminated against blacks (for example) but I fully support that owners right to do either or both.
 
#97,865
#97,865
Septic said:
It worries me that I hold Diamond Medallion status with Delta and I'm being ferried around by a pilot who lacks the ability to think critically.

How can you take one statement from @MG1968 or anyone else and make such assumptions. When will you guys learn that belief in one thing not beget a belief in another; stop foisting these dichotomies of "with us or against us" and your argument will instantly be more credible.
Click to expand...
It's just a discussion Nancy. Loosen your skirt a little.
 
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#97,866
#97,866
Septic said:
It worries me that I hold Diamond Medallion status with Delta and I'm being ferried around by a pilot who lacks the ability to think critically.
Click to expand...

Good for you. I’m super envious. I used to have this and it was pretty much a guaranteed upgrade to first class. I usually have to sit with the rest of the cattle now.
 
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#97,868
#97,868
DC_Vol said:
@NorthDallas40 @allvol123 @MG1968

This has been a very interesting discussion and has made me think harder about where I stand on this.

At first glance, I would oppose any type of commerce restriction based on vaccine status. It’s nobody’s business and if someone is concerned about it, wear PPE.

What if airlines, gasoline retailers, or power providers cut people off for not getting the jab?

On the other hand, a business owner should be free to do business with whomever he or she wants. And should have the right to set the terms with their customers.

I think after thinking harder about it, I’d agree with allvol and hog.

But I can understand anyone who doesn’t feel that way. And also think it’s a bad idea to categorize someone based off their position on one issue. There is definitely a lot of gray here.
Click to expand...
Pretty cool what happens to our ideas when there is real discussion and not a bunch of trolling and poo sliinging.

The only issue I have with your post is giving hog any credit. His ego will be more unbearable than it is already is.
 
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#97,870
#97,870
hog88 said:
True my views aren't conservative they are liberal because in classical sense liberals stood for individual liberty and conservatives stood for state.

What you are missing is by barring a business from asking for proof of vaccine, or baring it from discriminating against xyz you are taking away the individual right free association from the owner. I wouldn't patronize a business that would require proof of being vaccinated or one that discriminated against blacks (for example) but I fully support that owners right to do either or both.
Click to expand...
It is interesting that here in Florida Gov Desantis did exactly the opposite of that, and apparently got the cruise lines to back down. I actually agree with you, and I am surprised that they capitulated.... in a way. LIke you, if a business requires proof of vaccination or a mask, I don't do business with them... however... I am being discriminated against in that I have natural antibodies.
 
#97,871
#97,871
hog88 said:
True my views aren't conservative they are liberal because in classical sense liberals stood for individual liberty and conservatives stood for state.

What you are missing is by barring a business from asking for proof of vaccine, or baring it from discriminating against xyz you are taking away the individual right free association from the owner. I wouldn't patronize a business that would require proof of being vaccinated or one that discriminated against blacks (for example) but I fully support that owners right to do either or both.
Click to expand...
I been alive for 7 decades and I've never in my life seen any company ask for proof of vaccination for anything, why allow it now?
 
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#97,874
#97,874
VolStrom said:
I been alive for 7 decades and I've never in my life seen any company ask for proof of vaccination for anything, why allow it now?
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It's always been allowed (for employment) until now. I don't know why it would have been a thing on the customer side until now.

I've never in my lifetime seen the .gov be able to shutter entire industries by labeling them nonessential and I never want to see that again.
 
#97,875
#97,875
DC_Vol said:
Good for you. I’m super envious. I used to have this and it was pretty much a guaranteed upgrade to first class. I usually have to sit with the rest of the cattle now.
Click to expand...

I can't even look into steerage without looking down my nose and sneering in disgust.

I kid.

You're right though, it is better.
 
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