Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

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lawgator1 said:
That's where I am personally in that there seems now some doubt for our agencies and add that to the refusal to allow investigation on site, it naturally causes suspicions to increase.
Click to expand...

Forgive me for the long post, but I’m going to share.

It’s rare this happens, but as I was going to sleep last night, I thought a lot about this conversation you are having with others here and your point of view. It started with me thinking you are the definition of the often mentioned “Useful Idiot”, happy to repeat what you are told is true by a government agency and a useful cog to move an agenda forward. It’s a bad characterization, though, in the sense that I’m just making you the personal target of a much larger segment of the population.

You make a nice foil because you are bold enough to come share your thought process for all to see. But I deal with LG’s everyday: friends, some family, even some doctors, all who think just like you. I find it extremely concerning.

Put aside for a moment what your preconceived notions of me are. I can tell you that anyone who knows me, especially my wife, past bosses, and employees would describe me as a skeptic. Somebody telling me something is true only leads me to the questions around why they believe it to be so. I only say this because I’m not approaching this from a point of “I agree with Tucker” or “I agree with my doctor” or “I agree with some other agency who says so”.

In this case, we have a Coronavirus that we know originated in the same city where Coranaviruses are studied and modified. We knew this very early on. For these not to be related to one another would make for a huge coincidence. This coincidence isn’t evidence on its own, but it would make them not being related highly improbable. Given this:

First, on what basis would you dismiss those who agree with the more likely explanation? It seems reasonable that in the absence of concrete evidence to the contrary, one would accept the more probable hypothesis.

Second, why would you blindly trust an alternate explanation with no concrete proof, knowing it’s more improbable? We cannot substitute an appeal to authority as evidence.

And third, why would believing the more probable scenario make one anti science?

This same anti science smear extends to the vaccine, too. It was said the vaccine was researched, safe, and effective. For me, the first thing that comes into question is how can that be true for a virus that was a year old and a vaccine that was even newer. It would be impossible to do the longitudinal studies for safety unless someone traveled back in time. I had a family member of mine who is a doctor (and thought I was a kook, by the way) try to convince me of this so I would get vaccinated. I pointed out to him that he was part of the research. He couldn’t deny that. He is part of the longitudinal study, as is everyone else who got it.

Of course, the long term impacts of the vaccine cannot be known - good or bad at this point. I’m not posting this to stake out a position of being correct. I hope that the vaccine turns out to be safe (we already know it’s not effective against new strains).

Regardless, I’m concerned that so many will blindly listen to an “expert” and not rationally evaluate whether what they claim makes sense. I’m concerned that people are quick to label those who don’t think like as they’re instructed as anti science.

Don’t you feel like you’ve been duped? Don’t you feel the least bit of shame for talking down to people who thought about things different from you? Does any of this not lead you to think that perhaps you should be less trusting of “experts”? That you should practice more independent thought?

Shouldn’t we all learn something from this?

The results of not changing could be disastrous. If I were set on trying to control a large population, I would be feeling like I had a pretty good blueprint given how many people are thinking like you.

Again, sorry for the novel.
 
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#120,705
#120,705
volinbham said:
Here's a handy listing of some of the things that were considered anti-science

10 myths told by COVID experts -- now debunked
Click to expand...
I’ve said on here before….Expert Opinion is the lowest level of medical evidence.

Granted, within the first 3-6 months, that was pretty much all we had. However, some experts’ opinions’ were ignored or literally banned in favor of the chorus of experts singing the same tune.

As more robust science has actually been done, it is showing that those initial opinions, intentional or otherwise, were wrong.
 
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#120,708
#120,708
newyorkvol said:
I’ve said on here before….Expert Opinion is the lowest level of medical evidence.

Granted, within the first 3-6 months, that was pretty much all we had. However, some experts’ opinions’ were ignored or literally banned in favor of the chorus of experts singing the same tune.

As more robust science has actually been done, it is showing that those initial opinions, intentional or otherwise, were wrong.
Click to expand...

Everyone is labeled an “expert” these days.
 
#120,709
#120,709
DC_Vol said:
Forgive me for the long post, but I’m going to share.

It’s rare this happens, but as I was going to sleep last night, I thought a lot about this conversation you are having with others here and your point of view. It started with me thinking you are the definition of the often mentioned “Useful Idiot”, happy to repeat what you are told is true by a government agency and a useful cog to move an agenda forward. It’s a bad characterization, though, in the sense that I’m just making you the personal target of a much larger segment of the population.

You make a nice foil because you are bold enough to come share your thought process for all to see. But I deal with LG’s everyday: friends, some family, even some doctors, all who think just like you. I find it extremely concerning.

Put aside for a moment what your preconceived notions of me are. I can tell you that anyone who knows me, especially my wife, past bosses, and employees would describe me as a skeptic. Somebody telling me something is true only leads me to the questions around why they believe it to be so. I only say this because I’m not approaching this from a point of “I agree with Tucker” or “I agree with my doctor” or “I agree with some other agency who says so”.

In this case, we have a Coronavirus that we know originated in the same city where Coranaviruses are studied and modified. We knew this very early on. For these not to be related to one another would make for a huge coincidence. This coincidence isn’t evidence on its own, but it would make them not being related highly improbable. Given this:

First, on what basis would you dismiss those who agree with the more likely explanation? It seems reasonable that in the absence of concrete evidence to the contrary, one would accept the more probable hypothesis.

Second, why would you blindly trust an alternate explanation with no concrete proof, knowing it’s more improbable? We cannot substitute an appeal to authority as evidence.

And third, why would believing the more probable scenario make one anti science?

This same anti science smear extends to the vaccine, too. It was said the vaccine was researched, safe, and effective. For me, the first thing that comes into question is how can that be true for a virus that was a year old and a vaccine that was even newer. It would be impossible to do the longitudinal studies for safety unless someone traveled back in time. I had a family member of mine who is a doctor (and thought I was a kook, by the way) try to convince me of this so I would get vaccinated. I pointed out to him that he was part of the research. He couldn’t deny that. He is part of the longitudinal study, as is everyone else who got it.

Of course, the long term impacts of the vaccine cannot be known - good or bad at this point. I’m not posting this to stake out a position of being correct. I hope that the vaccine turns out to be safe (we already know it’s not effective against new strains).

Regardless, I’m concerned that so many will blindly listen to an “expert” and not rationally evaluate whether what they claim makes sense. I’m concerned that people are quick to label those who don’t think like as they’re instructed as anti science.

Don’t you feel like you’ve been duped? Don’t you feel the least bit of shame for talking down to people who thought about things different from you? Does any of this not lead you to think that perhaps you should be less trusting of “experts”? That you should practice more independent thought?

Shouldn’t we all learn something from this?

The results of not changing could be disastrous. If I were set on trying to control a large population, I would be feeling like I had a pretty good blueprint given how many people are thinking like you.

Again, sorry for the novel.
Click to expand...
As I said early in the pandemic, the way we solve novel problems is to consider all possible options, give each plausible one a fair shake and investigation, then draw conclusions. The very way this BS was handled was in direct contradiction to the Scientific Method. There was an immediate media assault, political stance, and even censoring against anyone with alternative ideas -- all of which should have been a huge red flag that something nefarious was going on. The rapidity and breadth by which things like branding ivermectin as "horse paste" took flight was astonishing. Effects on menstrual cycles was a hoax. Shots causing myocarditis was dismissed, despite there being proof in the EUA document by Pfizer, itself.
 
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kiddiedoc said:
As I said early in the pandemic, the way we solve novel problems is to consider all possible options, give each plausible one a fair shake and investigation, then draw conclusions. The very way this BS was handled was in direct contradiction to the Scientific Method. There was an immediate media assault, political stance, and even censoring against anyone with alternative ideas -- all of which should have been a huge red flag that something nefarious was going on. The rapidity and breadth by which things like branding ivermectin as "horse paste" took flight was astonishing. Effects on menstrual cycles was a hoax. Shots causing myocarditis was dismissed, despite there being proof in the EUA document by Pfizer, itself.
Click to expand...

There are multiple examples of this happening throughout the pandemic, and I’m sure it’s not a coincidence. This is what drove my novel.

How can one see things like this and not shift their way of thinking? It doesn’t make sense to me.

Brainwashed? Dogmatic belief in the benevolence of government? Pride? Stupidity? I just don’t understand.
 
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newyorkvol said:
I’ve said on here before….Expert Opinion is the lowest level of medical evidence.

Granted, within the first 3-6 months, that was pretty much all we had. However, some experts’ opinions’ were ignored or literally banned in favor of the chorus of experts singing the same tune.

As more robust science has actually been done, it is showing that those initial opinions, intentional or otherwise, were wrong.
Click to expand...

yep - nothing wrong with recognizing we don't know. the problem comes when even though we don't know we treat a theory as orthodoxy and others as heresy.

if you look at the motivation to shut down anything but the official take it was almost always for non-scientific reasons: we think it will harm scientists, we think it will cause vaccine hesitancy, we think people we seek alternate treatments, we think people will resist our policy prescriptions. even if well intentioned it was ignoring science in favor of policy.
 
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DC_Vol said:
There are multiple examples of this happening throughout the pandemic, and I’m sure it’s not a coincidence. This is what drove my novel.

How can one see things like this and not shift their way of thinking? It doesn’t make sense to me.

Brainwashed? Dogmatic belief in the benevolence of government? Pride? Stupidity? I just don’t understand.
Click to expand...

the common theme with the lab leak theory was "if Trump says it then I must disagree" "i hate him so badly I must say he's wrong and dangerously wrong" "anyone that says something Trump also says has to be wrong"

we can also substitute Trump for any commentator on Fox News apparently
 
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volinbham said:
the common theme with the lab leak theory was "if Trump says it then I must disagree" "i hate him so badly I must say he's wrong and dangerously wrong" "anyone that says something Trump also says has to be wrong"

we can also substitute Trump for any commentator on Fox News apparently
Click to expand...
It hurts when the face of the lab leak clan is any of the following:
 
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#120,716
#120,716
volinbham said:
the common theme with the lab leak theory was "if Trump says it then I must disagree" "i hate him so badly I must say he's wrong and dangerously wrong" "anyone that says something Trump also says has to be wrong"

we can also substitute Trump for any commentator on Fox News apparently
Click to expand...
It wasn’t just the lab leak theory. Masks as well. HCQ. Even the vaccines to a degree
 
#120,719
#120,719
85SugarVol said:
Ho sow?
Click to expand...

Well, for starters there are several mainstream news outlets that repeat whatever they are told by government officials.

WRT to COVID, I could also point out there is still an all out vaccination push by the CDC. And there is very little info coming out about the safety and efficacy of the vaccine.
 
#120,720
#120,720
volinbham said:
More bad news

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a..._secure_gain-of-function_research_148916.html

While the White House reported Monday that the U.S. intelligence community has not yet reached a “consensus” on the origins of the COVID-19 virus, the Biden administration voiced support for the practice of gain-of-function research, so long as it was done safely, securely, and with transparency.
Click to expand...
When I think of safe, secure, and transparent research, I always think of China.
 
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Within the confines of government docs..there is documentation of the NIH grant to Wuhan. maybe look in Biden's garage.

I still think the citizens should sue for negligence. The same will happen with NS Railroad.
It obviously initiated in the CCP. Make the CCP defend it
 
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#120,723
Orangeburst said:
Within the confines of government docs..there is documentation of the NIH grant to Wuhan. maybe look in Biden's garage.

I still think the citizens should sue for negligence. The same will happen with NS Railroad.
It obviously initiated in the CCP. Make the CCP defend it
Click to expand...
I'd be willing to wager a large sum of money that China has some serious dirt on the NIH/Fauci. This is what we referred to as a "Mexican Standoff" before that term was deemed racist and offensive to someone.
 
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#120,724
kiddiedoc said:
I'd be willing to wager a large sum of money that China has some serious dirt on the NIH/Fauci. This is what we referred to as a "Mexican Standoff" before that term was deemed racist and offensive to someone.
Click to expand...

The funding wasn't illegal..The negligence happened in Wuhan
These latest revelations are being used politically today. Everything in DC is political and the reason they are hedging now.
It is kind of an Ace Card by the USG IMO.
 
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