Let Us Leave Germany

[FLVOL_79]

Just because someone is in the service doesn't mean they are knowledgeable about it. You should know.

I guess I was spoiled working with all branches.

Still dont know Navy ranks though.

 

[FLVOL_79]

He’s a military expert now for 4 years.
My 31 years I’ve seen lots of downsizing in certain countries but an increase elsewhere. Will these troops comeback stateside? Doubt it, other countries in Africa are increasing troops, also much of Poland and Italy. Several bases in the Middle East are getting more populated with US troops as well.

New bases will pop up in old Soviet bloc countries. Thats already in motion.

 

[midnight orange]

We should be proud of playing a part in crushing The Soviets and communism in Eastern Europe. Unfortunately, instead of us declaring victory and gradually pulling out of Europe, we still wanted to justify a need for having NATO and troops in the region. Along with that, some of the same interests that are today ripping apart this country right now had their hands in Russia looting and picking off their assets... while millions in Russia died in the 1990s during the Soviet collapse and corrupt reign of Yeltsin. All of this is discussed by William Engdahl in his book "Manifest Destiny", in particular in the chapter called "The Rape of Russia".

The Rape of Russia (Saker blog exclusive interview) | The Vineyard of the Saker



Let me go back to my comment earlier where I said "playing a part in crushing The Soviets". Along with our pressure on the Soviets, you also had the USSR simply coming apart from within. They had suffered under 70+ years of tyranny and the loss of millions over that time. They Soviets were going to collapse under its own weight sooner or later. So with that in mind, you have people in Russia today that are not only fully aware of the horrors of of Soviet times, but are also survivors of the collapse and devastation of the 1990s as well. The people of Russia are fully aware of the savagery of communism and have no desire to return to those days.

Lastly, I believe that Putin, just like Donald Trump, was a wild card that "The Powers That Be" (for lack of a better term) did not account for. The assumption was that Yeltsin was going to pass on his power to some controllable puppet in Putin, and that the rape and looting of Russia would continue as before. But Putin ended up fighting the oligarchs and going out to protect Russian assets, resources and sovereignty. Putin, just like Trump, is a nationalist at heart. That is spun here at home as Putin wanting to rebuild the former glory and build a new Soviet Union.

So that is where we are at now. Our presence in Europe has nothing to do with "protecting" NATO countries. It is about being able to provoking Russia and limiting Russia's trade and commerce with Europe so that Russia could starve even more. That is why we have the sanctions. That is why we are pushing to stage military assets in The Baltics, Poland and Ukraine. Ukraine was key for two reasons. Not only do Russia's major gas pipelines to Europe pass through Ukraine, but also Russia's only warm water port in Crimea. So now you corner Russia military on land by expanding NATO into former Warsaw Pact nations, but you also threaten their ability to project naval power and you cut off their main means of financing their economy by controlling Ukrainian gas pipelines.

Thanks Ras...Added to reading list.

 

[Ten_Titans]

As a kid I lived in Germany as my father was a soldier in the Army. Now it appears that President Trump is finally pulling our troops out of this anti US European trash country. Thank You President Trump from all of the other kids that had to spend part of their youth treated like crap by the Germans. FU Nato, FU Eurotrash!

I've been to 8 European countries for extended periods of time.

Only in Germany did I have to tell people on two seperate occasions to **** off when they walked up and said I should speak German in public and not English.

It's like a redneck Walmart with Mexicans in it except everywhere.

 

[Orangeburst]

The development of the F-35A,B and C cost $1.1 trillion over 10 years.

No, that is the development, procurement and sustainment costs of the program over the life of the aircraft (2077).

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I don’t disagree.

However that doesn’t require defense of Russian expansion to state they need to own their own defense. Which you do every damn time.

So far, the only expansion that Russia has done was triggered by the Obama State Department trying to destabilize Ukraine. The Russian population in Crimea had a referendum and chose to join the Russian Federation.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Sound silly. Russia and Germany are working together on trade deals.

Ahh good. Their agreements have always seemed to go swimmingly.

 

[NorthDallas40]

So far, the only expansion that Russia has done was triggered by the Obama State Department trying to destabilize Ukraine. The Russian population in Crimea had a referendum and chose to join the Russian Federation.

and what a non forced referendum it was:

VOTE:
Join Mother Russia Because I want to: _____
Die:______

That you would still defend that farce of a referendum goes to support my statement. Hell even in this thread you responded to me calling the natural gas leverage out because you just can’t stop yourself from kissing Putin’s ass Ras

 

[C-south]

When they held the rapid deployment exercise DEFENDER Europe 20 it took the 3rd Infantry Division 2 weeks to deploy it’s 2nd BCT from Georgia. It’s Abrams tanks and Bradley’s had to be sea lifted from port in Savannah and offloaded at Bremerhaven.

That’s how it works. Moving tanks around the globe takes time. From putting them on a train, then off a train, then on a boat, then travel time, then unloading the boat, then loading tanks on another train or HET to get to their final destination.

 

[carlos86]

That’s how it works. Moving tanks around the globe takes time. From putting them on a train, then off a train, then on a boat, then travel time, then unloading the boat, then loading tanks on another train or HET to get to their final destination.

Yes and DoD came to the conclusion (as they did a long time ago) that it was better to preposition forces in Germany than to lift them piecemeal across the Atlantic.

 

[tvolsfan]

FU Nato, FU Eurotrash!

Screech!

 

[VolStrom]

Screech!

LG taught me well!

 

[NorthDallas40]

Screech!

LMFAO. Absolutely hilarious that you would take the time to edit his post down to the last sentence apparently to focus a point. And then just respond with “Screech!”. Well done, such a focused and forceful rebuttal

 

[tvolsfan]

I really don’t see how many fail to realize that protecting and strengthening NATO/KORUS/etc are not some things we do out of charity for the rest of the world. These things are specifically in our best interest.

 

[tvolsfan]

LMFAO. Absolutely hilarious that you would take the time to edit his post down to the last sentence apparently to focus a point. And then just respond with “Screech!”. Well done, such a focused and forceful rebuttal

His whole post was basically whining about the existence of some anti-American people in Germany means damaging important alliances is a good idea. It was little more than an angry rant that pretty perfectly captures Trumpism.

 

[VolStrom]

His whole post was basically whining about the existence of some anti-American people in Germany means damaging important alliances is a good idea. It was little more than an angry rant that pretty perfectly captures Trumpism.

Have you ever had the fun of living around a military base in a foriegn country?

 

[NorthDallas40]

His whole post was basically whining about the existence of some anti-American people in Germany means damaging important alliances is a good idea. It was little more than an angry rant that pretty perfectly captures Trumpism.

LMAO important alliance with Germany in this age

 

[lawgator1]

1) I am surprised this did not get a lot of debate, first. I would have thought a decision like this would have been pondered by various institutions with some public discussion, if for no other reason to assure everyone that the US is still committed to NATO.

2) I am also surprised that there aren't more alarm bells going off. I do see Liz Cheney has reacted strongly to the negative on this. But if Obama had done this I think there'd have been a Republican uproar.

3) I think it is naive not to be suspicious of where this is coming from. If in fact this is a Russian-influenced decision we need to hope that the intelligence services are tracking it and that arrests will be made soon. This is part of #1 above. Where did this come from?

 

[USAFgolferVol]

Oh boy....US forces visit Iceland, they "haven't gone back. They arent the islands defense force anymore. There was a rescue squadron (which I was part of) and and continuous rotation of F-15s that were there when it was an actual US base. Thats gone. The long range radars? All gone. Now its just a fueling stop for the rotater coming back from over seas. For some reason I thought you were in the service but that can't be right with your poor knowledge of the military.

Cudos to sticking with your anti-Trumpism no matter what. Its weird seeing you libs become "war hawks" now. haha

It's so funny that you believe anti-Trump sentiment is confined to liberals. Anti-Trump sentiment is almost universal among moderates of both parties. You think all that military brass that speaks out against Trump are liberal?
The nation's best and brightest do not support Trump. The nation's top entrepreneurs and corporate execs don't support him. Our top military leaders don't support him. This notion that it's only liberals is ridiculously ignorant

What's so funny about Trump is that he absolutely HATES that he doesn't have the affirmation of those groups and it's likely that he actually doesn't care for his base

 

[FLVOL_79]

It's so funny that you believe anti-Trump sentiment is confined to liberals. Anti-Trump sentiment is almost universal among moderates of both parties. You think all that military brass that speaks out against Trump are liberal?
The nation's best and brightest do not support Trump. The nation's top entrepreneurs and corporate execs don't support him. Our top military leaders don't support him. This notion that it's only liberals is ridiculously ignorant

What's so funny about Trump is that he absolutely HATES that he doesn't have the affirmation of those groups and it's likely that he actually doesn't care for his base

I never said it was confined to liberals. That being said, anything Trump does no matter if its positive for this country, gets a spin by anti Trumpers. Pulling troops out of Syria was bad to them. Pulling them out of Germany is bad because Russian boogeyman!! Im sure the top military leaders dont trust him because they want to always be fighting and he, like most Americans, doesn't want that. The best and brightest dont support Trump? Lol. OK. Trump might be a blabbering buffoon on TV but he has had zero policy which has been bad for America and I think THAT is really what pisses people like you off.

 

[tvolsfan]

LMAO important alliance with Germany in this age

Right, it’s tough to imagine why anyone would see value in being allies with the most powerful country in the EU. It’s not like they’re an important economic bloc or anything.

 

[FLVOL_79]

1) I am surprised this did not get a lot of debate, first. I would have thought a decision like this would have been pondered by various institutions with some public discussion, if for no other reason to assure everyone that the US is still committed to NATO.

2) I am also surprised that there aren't more alarm bells going off. I do see Liz Cheney has reacted strongly to the negative on this. But if Obama had done this I think there'd have been a Republican uproar.

3) I think it is naive not to be suspicious of where this is coming from. If in fact this is a Russian-influenced decision we need to hope that the intelligence services are tracking it and that arrests will be made soon. This is part of #1 above. Where did this come from?

Lol. Russia Boogeyman gotcha again.

Ready for this? The US is eyeing bases in old Soviet countries. Guess why? Its way, way cheaper for starters. Also, and this might shock some here, Russia does not share a border with Germany.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Right, it’s tough to imagine why anyone would see any value in being allies with the most powerful country in the EU. It’s not like they’re an important economic bloc or anything like that.

Troops leaving Germany does not sever economic ties or international relations between the US and Germany. Free education for the day for ya.

 

[USAFgolferVol]

I never said it was confined to liberals. That being said, anything Trump does no matter if its positive for this country, gets a spin by anti Trumpers. Pulling troops out of Syria was bad to them. Pulling them out of Germany is bad because Russian boogeyman!! Im sure the top military leaders dont trust him because they want to always be fighting and he, like most Americans, doesn't want that. The best and brightest dont support Trump? Lol. OK. Trump might be a blabbering buffoon on TV but he has had zero policy which has been bad for America and I think THAT is really what pisses people like you off.

I like some of his policies. Others not so much. He isn't a leader by any standard. He's actually terrible at it. That's what pisses me off plus the FACT that he's a thin skinned buffoon that divides the country at every turn. Pats himself on the back far too often too and much of the time it's over a false claim he's made

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

and what a non forced referendum it was:

VOTE:
Join Mother Russia Because I want to: _____
Die:______

That you would still defend that farce of a referendum goes to support my statement. Hell even in this thread you responded to me calling the natural gas leverage out because you just can’t stop yourself from kissing Putin’s ass Ras

It has been 6 years and counting. If the people of Crimea were actually forced into reuniting with Russia, where are the protests and demonstrations?

Obviously, they are happy.