Let's compare Jesus and Muhammed (and debate homosexuality) (and Tombstone).

#628
#628
emainvol said:
if he set me on fire, yes
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Do you consider chopping someone's hand off who steals, evil?? Do you believe in capital punishment?? There are many punishments that seem extreme, yet they are punishments none the less, and yet people still do things to get those punishments. Doesn't seem evil at all, seems like people thinking without caring about the actions afterward to me.
 
#629
#629
g8terh8ter_eric said:
You have it backwards
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No, I do not. The question was rhetorical. I already knew the answer. The answer was, yes, Jesus did say that.

Matthew 12:31-32

Therefore, I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
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This is repeated in Mark, as well.
 
#630
#630
#631
#631
IPorange said:
I would consider my father torturing me for eternity evil, no matter what I did.
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Yet he gave his own people SOOOOOO many chances, and they face the same consequences as the Gentiles do, and they killed one of their own. These are the people that God made his people, and led them out of slavery. Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son, and God almost let him do it, and then told him not to.
 
#632
#632
rjd970 said:
Amazing that we have people today, in the age of reason and intellectual thought...with more scientific evidence capable to them then any of the ancients could have dreamed of, that still believe in the literal story behind Genesis. You're right, it is ridiculous to assume a bunch of bronze age, animal sacrificing simpletons could have believed the same thing.
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Fools will always exist. Genesis was not taken literally until the Reformation.


rjd970 said:
The whole idea of claiming to know what happens after we die is arrogance without substance.
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I do not know that I have expressed any disagreement with that sentiment.
 
#634
#634
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son, and God almost let him do it, and then told him not to.
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All-knowing beings have to devise tests in order to know how fervently someone believes in them?

Aside from being an incredibly perverse story, this never struck you as odd...
 
#635
#635
therealUT said:
All-knowing beings have to devise tests in order to know how fervently someone believes in them?

Aside from being an incredibly perverse story, this never struck you as odd...
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Why should it?? God sacrificed his Son for me and everyone else in this world who believes in him. That doesn't strike me as odd, it strikes me as a God who knows what he's doing, and has a plan.
 
#636
#636
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Why should it?? God sacrificed his Son for me and everyone else in this world who believes in him. That doesn't strike me as odd, it strikes me as a God who knows what he's doing, and has a plan.
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Let's try this again.

God = all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good.

Genesis 22:12
"Do not lay your hand on the boy," said the messenger. "Do not do the least thing to him. I know now how devoted you are to God, since you did not withhold from me your own beloved son."
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This is a message from God, yes? So, God (all-knowing being) previously did not know how devoted Abraham was.

This is not odd to you?
 
#638
#638
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Do you consider chopping someone's hand off who steals, evil?? Do you believe in capital punishment?? There are many punishments that seem extreme, yet they are punishments none the less, and yet people still do things to get those punishments. Doesn't seem evil at all, seems like people thinking without caring about the actions afterward to me.
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Yes chopping someone's hand off is evil. No, I generally do not believe in capital punishment. Ultimately, it doesn't matter because neither of those punishments amounts to ETERNAL TORTURE. Surely you see the difference?
 
#640
#640
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Why should it?? God sacrificed his Son for me and everyone else in this world who believes in him. That doesn't strike me as odd, it strikes me as a God who knows what he's doing, and has a plan.
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And that plan is to arrogantly sentence anyone who can't quite wrap their brain around how God being such a jerk is somehow good and righteous to burn in some fiery pit for all of eternity. Yeah, no thanks.
 
#641
#641
therealUT said:
All-knowing beings have to devise tests in order to know how fervently someone believes in them?

Aside from being an incredibly perverse story, this never struck you as odd...
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Its possible that the test wasn't for God to "find out" anything, rather Abraham.
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#647
#647
Much of the atheist ire seems directed at three primary targets:

1. Christians (believers, of any religion)
2. The Doctrine of Damnation
3. The Church as an Institution

Is this right, or is there another Top 3 that has broader consensus?
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#648
#648
Tenacious D said:
Much of the atheist ire seems directed at three primary targets:

1. Christians (believers, of any religion)
2. The Doctrine of Damnation
3. The Church as an Institution

Is this right, or is there another Top 3 that has broader consensus?
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1. Law infused with religion as its basis
2. Education infused with religion as its basis
3. Socially accepted "norms" with religion as its basis

My three, in order.
 
#649
#649
Tenacious D said:
Much of the atheist ire seems directed at three primary targets:

1. Christians (believers, of any religion)
2. The Doctrine of Damnation
3. The Church as an Institution

Is this right, or is there another Top 3 that has broader consensus?
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1a. Perceived privileged access to truth.
1b. Exclusion
3. Hypocrisy
 
#650
#650
rjd970 said:
Amazing that we have people today, in the age of reason and intellectual thought...with more scientific evidence capable to them then any of the ancients could have dreamed of, that still believe in the literal story behind Genesis. You're right, it is ridiculous to assume a bunch of bronze age, animal sacrificing simpletons could have believed the same thing.

Because Aquinas advocated for the execution of heretics, it tells us that even the beliefs of intellectual thinkers, when not bound by social norms and intelligent thought, relied on holy scripture for guidance on all other matters. Same today, nobody knows what happens after we die, so we are told some of us will go to a magical place called heaven, and some will go to an eternity of materialistic suffering called hell. Same with Aquinas in his time, it is nothing more than short-sighted stupidity because there happens to be nothing to fall back on or constrain behavior at the time.

The whole idea of claiming to know what happens after we die is arrogance without substance.
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What should they do, instead? How best to bridge the gap between faith and reason, if even possible, or permissable?
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