Loser teachers

#127
#127
Majors said:
First layer- starts at home. Education priority in the family. Those in West Knoxville traditionally come from college educated home. Nuclear family environment.
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Undoubtedly. It is overwhelmingly the key predictor of educational success.
But that is not an indicator of a failed public education system.
 
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#128
#128
luthervol said:
Undoubtedly. It is overwhelmingly the key predictor of educational success.
But that is not an indicator of a failed public education system.
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2nd layer- inside the schools. From K-12, even in the affluent schools it is about moving on, leaving kids behind. Many times, those left behind don't have the resources (layer 1) to overcome the challenges of schools in meeting benchmarks but get passed along.
 
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#130
#130
luthervol said:
Why end there?
My point is only that it is not the educational system that is failing. That is simply a right wing copout.
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You're going to have dive in if you want the conversation to move on.

2nd layer- inside the schools. From K-12, even in the affluent schools it is about moving on, leaving kids behind. Many times, those left behind don't have the resources (layer 1) to overcome the challenges of schools in meeting benchmarks but get passed along.

Is it a "right wing copout" if you just stated "Undoubtedly. It is overwhelmingly the key predictor of educational success"
 
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#131
#131
luthervol said:
Why end there?
My point is only that it is not the educational system that is failing. That is simply a right wing copout.
Click to expand...

The education system is failing and IMO the growth in non-teacher jobs within the school systems has a lot to do with it. When a company is overburdened with management what happens? The Jr managers try to make themselves stand out by making "changes" and it's no different in the .gov sector.

Chart of the Day: Administrative Bloat in US Public Schools

Growth in Administrative Staff, Assistant Principals Far Outpaces Teacher Hiring
 
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#132
#132
Majors said:
You're going to have dive in if you want the conversation to move on.

2nd layer- inside the schools. From K-12, even in the affluent schools it is about moving on, leaving kids behind. Many times, those left behind don't have the resources (layer 1) to overcome the challenges of schools in meeting benchmarks but get passed along.

Is it a "right wing copout" if you just stated "Undoubtedly. It is overwhelmingly the key predictor of educational success"
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The right wing copout is "public education is a failure".
There are so many programs in place to address the ones "left behind" that it's borderline ridiculous.
But I do agree that some kids are passed along that are not prepared to move to the next level. If I could change one thing, that would be it.
 
#133
#133
hog88 said:
The education system is failing and IMO the growth in non-teacher jobs within the school systems has a lot to do with it. When a company is overburdened with management what happens? The Jr managers try to make themselves stand out by making "changes" and it's no different in the .gov sector.

Chart of the Day: Administrative Bloat in US Public Schools

Growth in Administrative Staff, Assistant Principals Far Outpaces Teacher Hiring
Click to expand...
That is a problem. I would love to see the Dept. of Ed come out with a student to administrator ratio that must be met in order to receive federal funds.
 
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#134
#134
luthervol said:
That is a problem. I would love to see the Dept. of Ed come out with a student to administrator ratio that must be met in order to receive federal funds.
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LOL

The federal DOE is largely responsible for the administrative bloat. The first step would be to do away with the Federal DOE.
 
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#135
#135
hog88 said:
LOL

The federal DOE is largely responsible for the administrative bloat. The first step would be to do away with the Federal DOE.
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lol.....That's like saying that because the military is bloated, it should be eliminated.
The first step would be to use the DOE to reduce the bloat.
 
#136
#136
luthervol said:
The right wing copout is "public education is a failure".
There are so many programs in place to address the ones "left behind" that it's borderline ridiculous.
But I do agree that some kids are passed along that are not prepared to move to the next level. If I could change one thing, that would be it.
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Public education is a failure if for example a kid from West Knoxville is given more opportunities, more classes/diversity of classes better preparation to be accepted into colleges. The other side, is it fair for those in West Knoxville to have a tougher rigor of classes and higher test scores to get into UTK than those under the Academic Enrichment Upward Bound program?
 
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#137
#137
3rd layer- @luthervol is School Board Members being elected officials. You get what you vote for. As long as those that keep getting elected continue to allow their districts to be held back they are part of the cycle continuing.
 
#138
#138
luthervol said:
lol.....That's like saying that because the military is bloated, it should be eliminated.
The first step would be to use the DOE to reduce the bloat.
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That’s an extremely false premise. If the DOE were eliminated, the states could educate their own children.(Much more efficiently I might add) That’s not the same as eliminating the military and letting California be in charge of its own nukes. If there’s no DOE, then there’s no NEA and Randi can go get a real job instead of grifting.
 
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#139
#139
luthervol said:
Why end there?
My point is only that it is not the educational system that is failing. That is simply a right wing copout.
Click to expand...
On a whole I agree with you, but some of the policies implemented since Bush along with the policies mandated by the court systems are a drag on the educators pulling resources away from the core purpose of public education. An inordinate amount of resources are now dedicated to special Ed students who were not classified as special Ed 30+ years back (ADHD along with the kids who got no educational help at home and didn’t give it their best effort at school and as a result have fallen behind several grade levels in reading and math qualifying them for SE, and resources for EASL for illegal aliens who don’t speak English). Neighbor schools used to be focused on educating the typical student in the geographic area it served but that’s no longer the case. I understand that grouping students into classes based on similar past academic success is no longer allowed which just further incentives high achievers to seek out private schooling that’s more challenging.
 
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#140
#140
Majors said:
Public education is a failure if for example a kid from West Knoxville is given more opportunities, more classes/diversity of classes better preparation to be accepted into colleges. The other side, is it fair for those in West Knoxville to have a tougher rigor of classes and higher test scores to get into UTK than those under the Academic Enrichment Upward Bound program?
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"Upward Bound serves: high school students from low-income families; and high school students from families in which neither parent holds a bachelor's degree. The goal of Upward Bound is to increase the rate at which participants complete secondary education and enroll in and graduate from institutions of postsecondary education."

Aren't these the students we agreed are having the most difficulty, and isn't the goal one that is needed in order to start breaking the cycle?
 
#141
#141
hog88 said:
The education system is failing and IMO the growth in non-teacher jobs within the school systems has a lot to do with it. When a company is overburdened with management what happens? The Jr managers try to make themselves stand out by making "changes" and it's no different in the .gov sector.

Chart of the Day: Administrative Bloat in US Public Schools

Growth in Administrative Staff, Assistant Principals Far Outpaces Teacher Hiring
Click to expand...
IMO, the biggest problem is the schools have lost much of their abilities to demand a standard level of behavior whereas 30+ years back if you were a criminal or a disruptive hellion either the assistant principal beat you into line or they sent you packing. The bottom 10% of behavior and bottom 10% of academic achievement kids get 80+% of the resources today. IMO
 
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#142
#142
luthervol said:
"Upward Bound serves: high school students from low-income families; and high school students from families in which neither parent holds a bachelor's degree. The goal of Upward Bound is to increase the rate at which participants complete secondary education and enroll in and graduate from institutions of postsecondary education."

Aren't these the students we agreed are having the most difficulty, and isn't the goal one that is needed in order to start breaking the cycle?
Click to expand...
It is absolutely. But again going back to the failure of the public school system if those kids are not under the same criteria we have passed them along to just meet the minimum. When a kid in West Knoxville is taking a tougher rigor of classes to get into the same school.
 
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#144
#144
walkenvol said:
On a whole I agree with you, but some of the policies implemented since Bush along with the policies mandated by the court systems are a drag on the educators pulling resources away from the core purpose of public education. An inordinate amount of resources are now dedicated to special Ed students who were not classified as special Ed 30+ years back (ADHD along with the kids who got no educational help at home and didn’t give it their best effort at school and as a result have fallen behind several grade levels in reading and math qualifying them for SE, and resources for EASL for illegal aliens who don’t speak English). Neighbor schools used to be focused on educating the typical student in the geographic area it served but that’s no longer the case. I understand that grouping students into classes based on similar past academic success is no longer allowed which just further incentives high achievers to seek out private schooling that’s more challenging.
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Lot of truth in that, but I do not know of a district that doesn't group based on ability.
 
#145
#145
Ashevolle said:
I went to public school in Western NC. As a state we were definitely scrapping the bottom of the barrel. That said, I got a great education. Was always in advanced classes and had lots of college credit upon graduation. All education is a lot like a book. It can open doors for you or act as a paper weight. We all get to choose.
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I'm in the most western part of NC and I can tell you we're in a rapid decline out here. The close proximity to Georgia (and the much higher teacher salaries) are killing us out here.

As the older guard retires we're replacing them with the leftovers the Georgia schools wouldn't hire.

Union County GA and Murphy NC schools are about 20 miles apart but they'd might as we'll be a million miles. The difference is astounding
 
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#146
#146
Majors said:
It is absolutely. But again going back to the failure of the public school system if those kids are not under the same criteria we have passed them along to just meet the minimum. When a kid in West Knoxville is taking a tougher rigor of classes to get into the same school.
Click to expand...
College admissions offices are aware of the differences in rigor from different schools and factor that into their admission decisions.
 
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#148
#148
marcusluvsvols said:
Months off...plus at least 2 weeks at Christmas, a week a spring break, teacher work days throughout the year with no students, all federal and state holidays off and they normally get off work by 3pm every day...

Not a bad gig as long as you dont need big money income....perfect for wives, especially with children as they can still pick them up and drop them off from school...and share the same holidays so no paid child care needed.

Just like in the article i posted.....there are a few good to excellent, and many many sheitty public school teachers. Many like Loother allegedly is who have the grammar of a 7yr old at best...others who teach history or literature and cannot even do regular Algebra. Dead serious...have seen it with my own two eyes.

I am glad the article i posted didnt edit what the teacher said to make it sound like maybe at least an average 15 year olds grammar...they quoted her ebonics word for word in order to show people how ridiculously ignorant some of the folks are which are responsible for educating kids.

Its a damn disgrace. People should be angry. I had a couple of good teachers growing up, and 1 excellent black man who taught us AP world history that was a mentor to kids and pivotal in many lives. Without exaggeration, i had 3 or 4 terrible teachers who hated their jobs for every good one. At least 1 teacher every year who spoke ebonics like the lady i linked...teachers i know for a fact did not have the knowledge after somehow getting a college degree that my youngest has at 14yo now who is Christian school educated. It is disgraceful...and the poorer side of town schools have the worst of the bunch. These are the least desirable jobs so the least effective teachers often end up there...unable to be fired as they should due to unions.

Its a damn disgrace. The world mocks us for spending more per capita than anyone, yet educating worse than nearly every western country on Earth.
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There's so much anecdotal BS in here, but I will just state one fact. America's educational system actually creates more positive outcomes for students than any opther country in the world. The reason we rank low on PISA is because unlike other countries, we actually include special education students in our score caluclations and don't actively segregate them from the rest of the student population like England, S. Korea, Germany, etc. etc.
 
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#150
#150
Majors said:
I'm aware of that, but you missed my point. Is it right to have different standards on acceptance?
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That's complicated. In one way, being in the top five percent of your graduating class is the same, and in other ways it could be vastly different.
Is it fair to accept one student who was in the third percentile in their class while rejecting another that was in the second percentile of theirs?
Granted, the first may have had more rigor and stronger competition, but it gets extremely hard to quantify.
 
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