Malaysia Boeing 777

#176
#176
volprof said:
Yes, we know. The US and Ukraine are behind this crash, and Russia has never done anything wrong in the history of ever, nor shall she.
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I'm sorry. if you are suggesting that I'm saying that Russia has never done anything wrong in history, then you obviously have it wrong.
I'm just saying that at this moment in history, the US is in the wrong and is the bad guy right now. Sorry if I ruined your hot dogs and apple pie.
 
#177
#177
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm sorry. if you are suggesting that I'm saying that Russia has never done anything wrong in history, then you obviously have it wrong.
I'm just saying that at this moment in history, the US is in the wrong and is the bad guy right now. Sorry if I ruined your hot dogs and apple pie.
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WTF?

For real? We shot down that airliner?
 
#178
#178
Grand Vol said:
It matters a whole lot.

If the missile was fired from Ukrainian territory, the Russians can deny culpability and claim they had no control on what went on.

If it was fired from Russian sovereign territory on the other hand...
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We had already been talking about, or in the process of, upping the sanctions on Russia for their continued meddling in the east, even though it's been under the guise of separatists.

Anyway, the punishment is largely up to the Europeans. Ironically, the Dutch had been against previous sanctions. Wonder if this will change their minds.
 
#180
#180
:good!:
TheDeeble said:
Russia would probably have the same motivation your suggesting that the Ukrainians might have
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I don't think so. The reason being is that everyone and their mother is expecting Russia to come in and react with a ruthless military assualt. Something like this would only re-enforce previously preconceived notions. The US has already set the stage and gotten our expectations set. all the US had to do then was create the event and assign blame.
 
#183
#183
Velo Vol said:
We had already been talking about, or in the process of, upping the sanctions on Russia for their continued meddling in the east, even though it's been under the guise of separatists.

Anyway, the punishment is largely up to the Europeans. Ironically, the Dutch had been against previous sanctions. Wonder if this will change their minds.
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But the difference being that if the separatists fired it from Ukrainian territory, they are just "rebels out of control."

If it's fired from Russian territory, even if it is "rebels" that means the Russians can't even control their own border areas and/or any nation with one of the victims involved could even go so far as to say an act of war.

I agree that it's on the EU, but we're involved now whether we want to be or not. And we have to take a leadership role.
 
#186
#186
Rasputin_Vol said:
:good!:

I don't think so. The reason being is that everyone and their mother is expecting Russia to come in and react with a ruthless military assualt. Something like this would only re-enforce previously preconceived notions. The US has already set the stage and gotten our expectations set. all the US had to do then was create the event and assign blame.
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To entertain this theory, you'd have to assume that the US wanted to take some action against Russia.

I'm admittedly a big critic of Obama and the majority of his administration. Obama doesn't have the stones to take decisive action against Putin. The only way he'll do it is if he's backed into a corner. I just don't see Obama backing himself into a corner.

It wasn't that long ago that he was jumping at the chance to appease the Russians. He can't even get up the sack to insinuate they are involved. If he was picking a fight, it would have been his first move.

Too much golf to be played. I'm on vacation, *****es!!
 
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#187
#187
Velo Vol said:
We had already been talking about, or in the process of, upping the sanctions on Russia for their continued meddling in the east, even though it's been under the guise of separatists.

Anyway, the punishment is largely up to the Europeans. Ironically, the Dutch had been against previous sanctions. Wonder if this will change their minds.
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What affect will US sanctions have ona country that is already in the process of de-dollarizing and make trade deals outside of the USD?

It is almost like Obama and our leadership is on a suicide mission that will more quickly force other countries to move away from the dollar as the world's reserve currency.
 
#188
#188
Honestly, I hope we stay out of it and let someone else handle it for once. And I'm not big on arming the Ukraine to fight the Russians. We did that with UBL. Didn't work out so well for us. In fact, it seems everytime we arm someone, they turn against us. UBL, Saddam... Maybe it's time we reconsidered our foreign policy.
 
#191
#191
Weezer said:
Honestly, I hope we stay out of it and let someone else handle it for once. And I'm not big on arming the Ukraine to fight the Russians. We did that with UBL. Didn't work out so well for us. In fact, it seems everytime we arm someone, they turn against us. UBL, Saddam... Maybe it's time we reconsidered our foreign policy.
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We have stayed out of it for the most part. And now Americans are dead.

Like it or not, we're involved at this point. And you want a foreign policy nightmare? Let us walk away from this and see what happens.
 
#192
#192
Rasputin_Vol said:
It depends on who you are saying "we" is? Is "we" the Ukrainians under Poroshenko's control or "we" as in the US military being directly responsible.
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We probably think we are being a little off the wall with our conspiracy theories that we would likely find on Infowars.
 
#193
#193
Grand Vol said:
But the difference being that if the separatists fired it from Ukrainian territory, they are just "rebels out of control."

If it's fired from Russian territory, even if it is "rebels" that means the Russians can't even control their own border areas and/or any nation with one of the victims involved could even go so far as to say an act of war.
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Yes, I know that from a legal, technical, perhaps even moral standpoint it's not the same.

What I'm getting at is that our approach to reprisals should be largely the same. Russia is behind this. We're not going to exact sufficient revenge from the Donetsk People's Republic.
 
#194
#194
Velo Vol said:
Yes, I know that from a legal, technical, perhaps even moral standpoint it's not the same.

What I'm getting at is that our approach to reprisals should be largely the same. Russia is behind this. We're not going to exact sufficient revenge from the Donetsk People's Republic.
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Okay, I'm tracking with you now.

Convincing the rest of the world? Might not be so easy.
 
#195
#195
Rasputin_Vol said:
What affect will US sanctions have ona country that is already in the process of de-dollarizing and make trade deals outside of the USD?
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US sanctions alone? Not a very strong one. But ones with teeth and EU participation? A pretty strong one.

See Iran.
 
#196
#196
Rasputin_Vol said:
It depends on who you are saying "we" is? Is "we" the Ukrainians under Poroshenko's control or "we" as in the US military being directly responsible.
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So the fact that the plane was well over Ukraine territory and wasn't shot down until it neared the Russian border has no bearing on you whatsoever?
 
#197
#197
Velo Vol said:
No idea what the picture is, but in a purported recording of separatist conversation they specifically mention toilet paper at the crash site. Which strikes me as weird, because how much toilet paper does a plane carry?


Intercepted Audio of Ukraine Separatists - Video - NYTimes.com
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Don't know for sure but you'd stock several extra rolls for the multiple bathrooms on board. As they're floating they appear to all be the same size as well which would make sense as each floating strand is one individual roll.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgMgQ3M2oCc[/youtube]
 
#198
#198
Velo Vol said:
Yes, I know that from a legal, technical, perhaps even moral standpoint it's not the same.

What I'm getting at is that our approach to reprisals should be largely the same. Russia is behind this. We're not going to exact sufficient revenge from the Donetsk People's Republic.
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You know V, you could have summed this up into Grandese:

The Russians were involved: "Eff 'em."

The separatists were involved: "Eff Russia anyway."

Might have saved you a bit of time too.
 
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