Malaysia Boeing 777

#203
#203
#205
#205
Velo Vol said:
Did it? My understanding is that the Buk SAM being attributed for this has a short range. UKR doesn't control the land close enough to the crash site to have used one.
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Depending on the model of the missile used, it has a range between 30 and 50 kilometers.

Buk missile system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So it is possible depending on how much of the Donetsk region the Ukrainians control.
 
#206
#206
Grand Vol said:
True, bit even though it was an "accident" the act itself was still intentional.

But as an opinion piece, it's not bad.
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How would an accident be intentional?

They might have meant to blow up Ukrainian military planes, but that would in no way be intentional with respect to the civilian flight.
 
#208
#208
PKT_VOL said:
How would an accident be intentional?

They might have meant to blow up Ukrainian military planes, but that would in no way be intentional with respect to the civilian flight.
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Right, that's what I'm saying. Intentionally trying to shoot down an aircraft. An accident because it wasn't the target they thought it was.
 
#210
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Grand Vol said:
Right, that's what I'm saying. Intentionally trying to shoot down an aircraft. An accident because it wasn't the target they thought it was.
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Right, but I find such a distinction irrelevant. No different than when we shot down the civilian aircraft thinking it was a fighter jet coming for our ship.
 
#211
#211
PKT_VOL said:
Right, but I find such a distinction irrelevant. No different than when we shot down the civilian aircraft thinking it was a fighter jet coming for our ship.
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Different points of view. It's not like KAL 007 where they knew for a fact it was a civilian aircraft. That we know of right now at least.
 
#214
#214
Grand Vol said:
At this point it isn't. As I also noted earlier in this thread.
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Which is why I fail to see where the US can take the high ground. **** happens.

However, if they prove it was intentional, it changes the whole equation.
 
#215
#215
PKT_VOL said:
Which is why I fail to see where the US can take the high ground. **** happens.

However, if they prove it was intentional, it changes the whole equation.
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Events that happened 25 years in the past don't always make a good argument. Also, I'm not a huge fan of the way KAL 007 is being brought up in regards to this situation as the two are completely different.

Difference in the Iran Air 655 and this situation though? In the Vincennes incident, the Navy attempted to communicate with the airliner in question. From everything we know right now, whomever fired that SAM yesterday never made any attempts at contacting Malaysia Air 77.

ETA: The way that KAL 007 is being portrayed as a historical example of those cray Ruskies blasting anything out of the sky.
 
#216
#216
Do radar systems not identify the type of plane it is? Kind of like a Ping or something that would say " hey I'm a civilian plane" ?

Oh and I think Russia did it, and did it on purpose.
 
#217
#217
PKT_VOL said:
...if they prove it was intentional, it changes the whole equation.
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Anytime a missile is tracking, and then locks, and then fires, it is intentional.

Did they know it was a commercial airliner? Doesn't matter.

If it was of any importance, then they would have not fired. Rather, would have had more sense to make sure that what they were aiming to shoot down was actually what they intended it to be.

By not knowing with certainty, and firing, it was intentional.

They are over zealous and hungry for causing strife and destruction. If they were not this way, this is never a possibility.

It was intentional, just the intent was to hurt a " political " or " militaristic " foe...in their eyes, opinion, and quest for power/control. Just so happens they were wrong. Sad state of affairs gentleman.


images
 
#219
#219
Grand Vol said:
Depending on the model of the missile used, it has a range between 30 and 50 kilometers.

Buk missile system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So it is possible depending on how much of the Donetsk region the Ukrainians control.
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According to the forth map currently on this page, the rebels controlled most of the area in that zone, with the possible exception of right along the border.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...h-of-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh17.html?_r=2
 
#222
#222
Locals are split about how it was shot down, some are saying ground to air, others are saying a jet shot it down.

Either way, the pilot took a huge risk in taking that particular flight path. You just don't fly over war zones.
 
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#223
#223
Grand Vol said:
Events that happened 25 years in the past don't always make a good argument. Also, I'm not a huge fan of the way KAL 007 is being brought up in regards to this situation as the two are completely different.

Difference in the Iran Air 655 and this situation though? In the Vincennes incident, the Navy attempted to communicate with the airliner in question. From everything we know right now, whomever fired that SAM yesterday never made any attempts at contacting Malaysia Air 77.

ETA: The way that KAL 007 is being portrayed as a historical example of those cray Ruskies blasting anything out of the sky.
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In fairness, that region is considered a war zone. Armies, especially rebels, don't exactly warn the enemy before they fire (if they feel they are at war).
 
#224
#224
PKT_VOL said:
In fairness, that region is considered a war zone. Armies, especially rebels, don't exactly warn the enemy before they fire (if they feel they are at war).
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All the more reason a commercial jetliner shouldn't have been in their airspace.
 
#225
#225
Reports are that the black boxes and possibly some other materials are safe and sound now in the friendly confines of the Kremlin.
 
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