Markeith Ambles is TEARING it up and has left USC (merged)

#156
#156
I think that what is interesting about this whole thing is that it just underscores what the simple and obvious truth is. Recruiting is difficult and will never be an exact science, but you have to be aware that character issues can and do derail guys and take that into consideration in a sensible manner.

It is entirely likely that Dooley would've taken Ambles last year. He wouldn't sign 5 guys in a class with Ambles red-flags, either, but some coaches would. And he wouldn't sign just any guy who is a five-star, regardless of off-the-field concerns. Some coaches will.

I personally prefer a coach who can think and strike a balance to some guy who has to oversimplify the thing to a point where character issues are largely negligible. That kind of decision-making reminds me of that dullard HC (at Wisconsin?) who went for two pts when he was up by maybe 40 in the fourth quarter because 'that's what the card said to do'. Any jackass who doesn't realize that that decision calls for more than fourth grade arithmetic skills doesn't need to be coaching at the D1 level.

Same goes for talent vs. character in recruiting. We've got a guy who 'gets it' and we are likely to wind up better in the long run for it. If a guy has questionable character, he'd better be an exceptionally talented guy and the HC also has to realize that he should limit the big chances that he takes in that regard. UF has lost at least three four star guys that they signed last February already. That may be ok for UF - they have a full roster, but it would be a disaster for us.

We need maximum stability now, so we should rightfully put a little more emphasis on character issues - we can't afford even average attrition right now. In a few years, when the cupboard isn't bare, we can take a few more chances. I think Dooley understands that, will calibrate his decisions with it in mind/adjust accordingly, and that the Vols be better off for it.
 
#158
#158
So, he was suspended indefinitely, but is he truly "kicked off the team for good"? (I beg your pardon, just unsure of everything that has happened regarding it)
 
#159
#159
droski said:
and your evidence of this is what?
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My evidence is that Dooley has said directly that a balance has to be struck between a guy's talent and the risk that he poses, exactly as I have outlined. I don't remember Kiffin saying anything similar. Think they (O, I believe) said something along the lines of "we're not angels and we're not recruiting angels". It is reasonable to say that those two views represent a difference in recruiting philosophy. You are free to disagree if you like.

We also haven't had losses from last years class at this point, and we seem to have a disproportionate number of our current recruits are considered higher character guys. All of that is evidence.
 
#162
#162
winchestervol63 said:
My evidence is that Dooley has said directly that a balance has to be struck between a guy's talent and the risk that he poses, exactly as I have outlined. I don't remember Kiffin saying anything similar. Think they (O, I believe) said something along the lines of "we're not angels and we're not recruiting angels". It is reasonable to say that those two views represent a difference in recruiting philosophy. You are free to disagree if you like.

We also haven't had losses from last years class at this point, and we seem to have a disproportionate number of our current recruits are considered higher character guys. All of that is evidence.
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there isn't a coach in the country who doesnt' claim he recruits character #1. Kiffin said the same thing i am sure. your only evidence seems to be that dooley's recruiting classes are worse than kiffins.

how many of last years class were guys kiffin started recruiting? is it really that hard to not have guys commit crimes? how do you know they are high character guys?
 
#163
#163
droski said:
there isn't a coach in the country who doesnt' claim he recruits character #1. Kiffin said the same thing i am sure. your only evidence seems to be that dooley's recruiting classes are worse than kiffins.

how many of last years class were guys kiffin started recruiting? is it really that hard to not have guys commit crimes? how do you know they are high character guys?
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He thinks 5 stars equals time spent in jail I'm assuming.
 
#168
#168
winchestervol63 said:
My evidence is that Dooley has said directly that a balance has to be struck between a guy's talent and the risk that he poses, exactly as I have outlined. I don't remember Kiffin saying anything similar. Think they (O, I believe) said something along the lines of "we're not angels and we're not recruiting angels". It is reasonable to say that those two views represent a difference in recruiting philosophy. You are free to disagree if you like.

We also haven't had losses from last years class at this point, and we seem to have a disproportionate number of our current recruits are considered higher character guys. All of that is evidence.
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There is no correlation at all between a player's talent and the risk of him getting in trouble on a college campus. When will people stop posting this kind of idiocy?
 
#169
#169
How is droski trolling? He's been much longer than you VB 777 and he's a good poster.
 
#170
#170
JZVOL said:
How is droski trolling? He's been much longer than you VB 777 and he's a good poster.
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It's amazing to me how many people here throw around the word troll without having any idea what the Hell it means.
 
#171
#171
Just to let everyone know, there is a huge RUMOR over on VQ that Ambles is transfering to Tennessee & he has already sent papers to go through. Dont shoot the messenger but this guy is suppose to be on the money. He called Arnett, Couch, & Da'Rick all to UT months before they happened.
 
#172
#172
i would like to have Ambles back but he does have serious character issues. Urban, Saban, Pete, and Richt all stayed away from the kid.
 
#173
#173
droski said:
there isn't a coach in the country who doesnt' claim he recruits character #1. Kiffin said the same thing i am sure. your only evidence seems to be that dooley's recruiting classes are worse than kiffins.

how many of last years class were guys kiffin started recruiting? is it really that hard to not have guys commit crimes? how do you know they are high character guys?
Click to expand...

Dooley has said clearly and often that he puts an emphasis on character. Most coaches do not make that clear that in the manner that Dooley has. You say that they all do, so let's check your premise. Find me an article on Kiffin that's similar to this one:

Adams: Character, not stars, key to Vols' recruiting GoVolsXtra

If that's not evidence that Dooley puts an emphasis on character to you, then nothing will ever be.

Dooley has put in a character development program at UT. Kiffin did not at UT and has not at USC. Would you consider THAT as being evidence that character issues matter more to Dooley and that it's not just lip-service? I suspect that you wouldn't. Maybe he just says he has a program like that and noone realizes that it's not true yet.

Do not oversimplify this by saying that Dooley is going to recuruit one star boy scouts that he thinks have character. I'm saying that he puts a larger emphasis on it than most coaches and that UT needs the sort of stability that is likely to bring, especially in the short term. I think that Ambles is the sort of guy that is too big of a risk to pursue at this point for UT. As for Dooley's recruiting class being worse than Kiffin's - I think it makes sense to see what it is before we decide. Not only on NSD, but a year later, too.

Any guy tweeting about going 'bone to bone' with a female reporter is more likely to flame out in college and not help his team than a guy who shows some simple respect and common decency instead. You seem to disagree and think that considering that sort of behavior while recruiting is a waste of time. I think it's worth considering in the recruiting process.
 
#174
#174
jmoore_21 said:
Just to let everyone know, there is a huge RUMOR over on VQ that Ambles is transfering to Tennessee & he has already sent papers to go through. Dont shoot the messenger but this guy is suppose to be on the money. He called Arnett, Couch, & Da'Rick all to UT months before they happened.
Click to expand...

Hope it's false.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#175
#175
i'd say the character development program is a reaction to the bar brawl and the stupid robbery. as for your article it's an easy way to make excuses when you aren't bringing in the big talent. the best character guys on your team are the hardest workers who many times are the highest rated guys. why? because they worked their arse off to get there. i'd love an example of a 5 star guy dooley stopped recruiting.
 
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