Martin wants an extension and am sure a raise (rumor)

#251
#251
I think there was obvious improvement from year 1 to year 2, regardless of the obvious overall record improvement and reduction in bad losses. The problem, IMO, in related to recruiting. Cuonzo hasn't recruited well enough overall to have effective replacements for Maymon and Tatum. I like Moore, Richardson and the other role players that Cuonzo has recruited (they need time to develop), but aside from the two five-stars, this year's team didn't have enough of the Maymon/Tatum caliber players to put the team over the top.

The coaching is there, even if Cuonzo isn't a great coach yet in your mind. We just don't have the quality depth that you need to win big. This year we were like a slightly more talented Georgia. A few strong pieces with marginal / inexperienced filler pieces that couldn't step up when the stars couldn't do it by themselves. Hubbs will help, and Maymon will certainly help. But we need more of those 2nd tier players to fill in the gaps.
 
#252
#252
GiveHimSixGoVols said:
Got to love Vol fans comparing a job cooking fries to one leading a major college basketball program.
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And if you went down a checklist of things that he needs to do (much like an evaluation at any other job) as a head coach, ie winning more games, players graduating, players not being arrested, he's shown that he deserves a raise. Not as big as it would be if he made the Dance, but still deserves one.
 
#253
#253
I agree with everyone to a point. We have not been making the NCAA. Despite that, Cuonzo Martin's teams have finished 2nd and 5th in the SEC with successful SEC regular season records. The NCAA tournament selection committee does not think much of the strength of the SEC. Unless you are Florida or Kentucky, the nation overlooks the SEC. Could this be related to the grudge that the media and conference officials across the nation hold against the SEC for it's predominance over college football?

Getting back to the situation, Cuonzo kind of holds some leverage. If we do not give him an extension, it will play a detrimental role on our recruiting. A coach needs a revolving 5 year roll over deal in order to show kids that you will be the coach at that school during their time at that school To not give your coach that kind of a deal, is and will be used against Tennessee in recruiting.

Do we risk flushing our basketball program down the toilet again, by not giving Martin a roll over deal for recruiting? What kind of effort would he give and how would he get the job done if he doesn't get a roll over deal as he is asking for? We are still filling TBA up in record numbers. I don't believe Dave Hart is willing to give that up and risk it by not taking some sort of action.

If you do not give him the extension in the form a rollover, you are telling Martin that we do not want him and that his employment is short term. Martin holds some big leverage. The ball is in Hart's court.
 
#254
#254
whobethis16 said:
It's called an analogy. The concept remains the same. The man has done nothing thus far that warrants being treated like we don't give a damn about him. As others have said, based on market value, we'ere ripping him off, and if the AD wants to keep him around longer, they need to do something about it.
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Shaka Smart just got a raise to 1.2 million a year which is less than Martin is making now and he has taken that team to the Final 4 and to 2 straight NCAA tournaments. You are trying to justify giving a mediocre coach a raise based on what other mediocre coaches are making and it just doesn't even come close to flying.
 
#255
#255
GiveHimSixGoVols said:
Shaka Smart just got a raise to 1.2 million a year which is less than Martin is making now and he has taken that team to the Final 4 and to 2 straight NCAA tournaments. You are trying to justify giving a mediocre coach a raise based on what other mediocre coaches are making and it just doesn't even come close to flying.
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Are you ready to fire Martin? We don't have the cash for his buyout. That is essentially what you are telling Martin, UT players, UT recruits, and future UT recruits, if you take that stance.

Coaches have toi have the automatic 5 year roll over deal in order to recruit well.
 
#256
#256
GiveHimSixGoVols said:
Shaka Smart just got a raise to 1.2 million a year which is less than Martin is making now and he has taken that team to the Final 4 and to 2 straight NCAA tournaments. You are trying to justify giving a mediocre coach a raise based on what other mediocre coaches are making and it just doesn't even come close to flying.
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And, second in his league is Buzz Peterson at under $500k a year in 2012. So, based on his performance in conference, Smart is getting paid correctly. So, Martin is not getting paid enough based on his conference..
 
#257
#257
GiveHimSixGoVols said:
Shaka Smart just got a raise to 1.2 million a year which is less than Martin is making now and he has taken that team to the Final 4 and to 2 straight NCAA tournaments. You are trying to justify giving a mediocre coach a raise based on what other mediocre coaches are making and it just doesn't even come close to flying.
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Shaka knows he's going to have to coach at a high-major program to get paid. Not the same playing field.
 
#258
#258
bleedingTNorange said:
Regardless of everyone's opinion this time next year we will have a pretty good idea of what kind of coach he can be.

He's still young in terms of head coaching and obviously is still learning...let's see if he adapts to new things and learns from his mistakes or does the same thing.

One thing I like is he said in previous years we don't need a true PG to run the system and he didn't show an urgency to add one the last 2 classes...this year he put on a full court press for Thompson and doesn't seem satisfied there as he seems to be looking at mathieu.
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Hope he gets Dre.
Needs a play ready back up or possible replacement starter.
 
#259
#259
Tux said:
Are you ready to fire Martin? We don't have the cash for his buyout. That is essentially what you are telling Martin, UT players, UT recruits, and future UT recruits, if you take that stance.

Coaches have toi have the automatic 5 year roll over deal in order to recruit well.
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bs

You think these kids and their parents know nothing of the machinations of college basketball? That if and this is a big "if" Counzo does real well here and the Purdue job comes open that he will keep his commitment to the players he has already recruited. The players know they are second place to the almighty dollar as well as coaches know that if the NBA comes calling then he is second place in what the kid wants.

Let him prove he is worth keeping.
 
#260
#260
I can't for the life of me say the cuonzo is the guy. I respect what he's done in his career and I know his goal is final four and NC. I'm just not in the position to say whether or not he will take UT to the promised land of NCAA basketball.
 
#261
#261
GiveHimSixGoVols said:
Shaka Smart just got a raise to 1.2 million a year which is less than Martin is making now and he has taken that team to the Final 4 and to 2 straight NCAA tournaments. You are trying to justify giving a mediocre coach a raise based on what other mediocre coaches are making and it just doesn't even come close to flying.
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Actually 1.5 million, which is more than Martin, but hey don't let facts get in the way when posting. While we are at it keys ignore the fact he's in a small conference, you don't pay a coach 3 million at VCU. If he would've gone to UCLA he would have gotten about 3 million IMO.
 
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#262
#262
knowthevols said:
bs

You think these kids and their parents know nothing of the machinations of college basketball? That if and this is a big "if" Counzo does real well here and the Purdue job comes open that he will keep his commitment to the players he has already recruited. The players know they are second place to the almighty dollar as well as coaches know that if the NBA comes calling then he is second place in what the kid wants.

Let him prove he is worth keeping.
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You must be pretty young or pretty naive to think that way.

If your coach is not worthy of an extension to maintain recruiting, then let him go.
 
#265
#265
he doesn't deserve anything until after next season unless he takes us to the big dance. Coaches who can't take their teams to the tournament don't deserve extensions or raises. No excuses about anything, I don't beleive in mediocrity
 
#266
#266
The ones arguing against this know that we don't have to keep him any longer than we do now even if we give an extention, right?

All it is going to do is give the program a sense of stability and maybe give us a better chance in recruiting. So it actually helps the program instead of hurting it. If you are a fan of the program, I would think you would want something that helps.

I see there are a few Bruce Pearl fans instead of University of Tennessee fans though, so that might be the problem.
 
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#267
#267
strongtower said:
he doesn't deserve anything until after next season unless he takes us to the big dance. Coaches who can't take their teams to the tournament don't deserve extensions or raises. No excuses about anything, I don't beleive in mediocrity
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Neither do I. Please do not post anymore. :p
 
#268
#268
UTFanForLife said:
The ones arguing against this know that we don't have to keep him any longer than we do now even if we give an extention, right?

All it is going to do is give the program a sense of stability and maybe give us a better chance in recruiting. So it actually helps the program instead of hurting it. If you are a fan of the program, I would think you would want something that helps.

I see there are a few Bruce Pearl fans instead of University of Tennessee fans though, so that might be the problem.
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From your post it sounds like you are a University of Martin @Knoxville fan.
 
#269
#269
UTFanForLife said:
The ones arguing against this know that we don't have to keep him any longer than we do now even if we give an extention, right?

All it is going to do is give the program a sense of stability and maybe give us a better chance in recruiting. So it actually helps the program instead of hurting it. If you are a fan of the program, I would think you would want something that helps.

I see there are a few Bruce Pearl fans instead of University of Tennessee fans though, so that might be the problem.
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Ding ding ding.

Someone who is opposed to him getting an extension tell me why logically and with good reason you'd object if Dave Hart says...

Ok Cuonzo, we realize it's a recruiting disadvantage to not have atleast a 4 year contract, but we also haven't reached the NCAA tournament under you. We will extend your contract and give you a small raise to put you on par with other SEC coaches who have a similar resume. However, your buyout will remain the same as it currently is so in a case where you underperform in the near future we can part ways without being financially handicapped.

If Martin turns this down, hey you offered an extension, but put the ball in his court. If he accepts that what is the negative, someone please tell me how that hurts us?
 
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#270
#270
knowthevols said:
From your post it sounds like you are a University of Martin @Knoxville fan.
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Couldn't be more wrong. I supported every coach we have had, if you can't hack it then adios. But why handcuff your coach when all you gotta do is put faith in him? A contract extention costs the University nothing unless you change the buyout, which they shouldn't do. Only other cost would be if he finishes the contract, if he makes it that far then it turns out he can coach.

It really is a no lose situation on the business end. You back your coach, you help recruiting, you help the program and you see how it goes. If he tanks, you fire him. If he improves you keep him.
 
#271
#271
bleedingTNorange said:
Ding ding ding.

Someone who is opposed to him getting an extension tell me why logically and with good reason you'd object if Dave Hart says...

Ok Cuonzo, we realize it's a recruiting disadvantage to not have atleast a 4 year contract, but we also haven't reached the NCAA tournament under you. We will extend your contract and give you a small raise to put you on par with other SEC coaches who have a similar resume. However, your buyout will remain the same as it currently is so in a case where you underperform in the near future we can part ways without being financially handicapped.

If Martin turns this down, hey you offered an extension, but put the ball in his court. If he accepts that what is the negative, someone please tell me how that hurts us?
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There is no good reason or negative effects of that. Except it potentially means more "boring basketball" and "unemotional coaching" by someone who isn't Pearl.
 
#273
#273
UTFanForLife said:
People better get used to it, Pearl will never roam the sidelines at UT again.
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I was being sarcastic and making fun of those that want Pearl back. I don't want him back and completely support Martin.

Edit: my bad. Missed the "people". Thought you were telling me to get used to it.
 
#274
#274
whobethis16 said:
I was being sarcastic and making fun of those that want Pearl back. I don't want him back and completely support Martin.

Edit: my bad. Missed the "people". Thought you were telling me to get used to it.
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Sorry I probably could have worded it better. I'm sure some are joking about Pearl coming back, but some out there actually think it will happen.
 
#275
#275
bleedingTNorange said:
Ding ding ding.

Someone who is opposed to him getting an extension tell me why logically and with good reason you'd object if Dave Hart says...

Ok Cuonzo, we realize it's a recruiting disadvantage to not have atleast a 4 year contract, but we also haven't reached the NCAA tournament under you. We will extend your contract and give you a small raise to put you on par with other SEC coaches who have a similar resume. However, your buyout will remain the same as it currently is so in a case where you underperform in the near future we can part ways without being financially handicapped.

If Martin turns this down, hey you offered an extension, but put the ball in his court. If he accepts that what is the negative, someone please tell me how that hurts us?
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I see your point but he hasn't accomplished anything to deserve either. Who cares if he beat some good teams, he lost to losers as well. Shows inconsistency. He's only been here for 2 years, hasn't went to the NCAA & has gotten bounced in early rounds of NIT twice. I mean if he doesn't go to NCAA again next year & he has an extension then it was a waste. If he finally goes next year then probably I would because I see us moving forward. UT has been burned way too many times on these extensions thus far.

Put up or shut up is for Cuonzo year 3, no more excuses
 
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