Martin wants an extension and am sure a raise (rumor)

[VolMaster14]

Let's hope Hart is smart enough not to give Cuonzo anything. Let him coach out his contract and let's move in a different direction.

Have no problem giving him nothing now and let him play out his contract. Another buyout is the last thing we need if we end up moving in a different direction. But, I also have no problem giving him a new contract and raise if he earns it next season!

 

[BigZiti09]

Let's hope Hart is smart enough not to give Cuonzo anything. Let him coach out his contract and let's move in a different direction.

I wonder if you can find one big time school in America in recent history where they let a coach "coach out his contract."

That doesn't happen. If your coach is not extended multiple years, it kills him in recruiting. Might as well fire him. The damage you'd cost your program would be more costly than a buyout.

 

[johnnybravo]

Show me proof or evidence that says Hart is gonna can Martin if he misses the dance next year, I'll wait...

What team is looking to have a weak roster?

There is hardly any evidence from an AD when a coach is timeline is up. Hell, we were told "Bruce is our guy" up until the night before the Michigan game, but everyone knew that it was inevidable that he would be canned.

Looking at the future somewhat logically....next year is Martin's best year at making the dance. If he misses, then what's the future hold? A rebuilding year in 2014 replacing 3 possibly 4 of your starters. Looking ahead at this point, it doesn't look like we possibly could make the dance in 2014/2015. We can, but just looking ahead, that would not be our year. 4 years without going to the tourney and the fanbase will be completely gone. They got 15,000 average this past year. That's ticket sold. Not attendance. Fans will be screaming for CCM to be fired next year. And season ticket holders will be dropping like flies. I for one will decline my 6 if we miss again. Hell, there is more fans against Martin now then are for him, IMO.

I think he will be fired if 1 of 2 things do not happen. 1. make the dance (which I think he will). 2. Bring in a top 15 - 20 recruiting class in 2014. Other than that Hart will be forced to fire CCM.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I wonder if you can find one big time school in America in recent history where they let a coach "coach out his contract."

That doesn't happen. If your coach is extended multiple years, it kills him in recruiting. Might as well fire him. The damage you'd cost your program would be more costly than a buyout.

It why UCONN gave Ollie an extension about 10 games into his first year...he was getting killed on the recruiting trail people saying he has no contract after this year and so on.

Do I necessarily agree with the way it is, no, but that's the way it is. As you said I can't think of a recent coach who coached his whole contract with no raise or extension, it just doesn't happen. As new coaches come into the league the pay scale typically goes up and so most of the coaches get raises...once again not saying I necessarily agree with this but it's the way it works.

 

[Roustabout]

I believe two coaches with much more history were just fired after making tourney.
People keep saying where he ranks in the conference. Three teams in tourney? How is it our fault that those other schools are overpaying?
Expect to see Cuonzos popularity nose dive with this tactic.
I' d suggest he get a new agent.
I'd point to his conference tourney efforts. Any tume u play in a tourney you have a chance to hang a banner. Did his team play like it?

 

[BigZiti09]

There's two ways you can go and there's positives and negatives to both.

1. Renegotiate the deal now.

Positives: If you give him a raise, it would be small. The UTAD would have the upper hand in negotiating. Now, if Martin has a great season next year, UT wouldn't be on the hook for another raise unless suitors came calling. Giving Martin a new deal shows faith in him and would help in recruiting.

Negatives: You'd be rewarding him for not going to the tournament and saddling yourself with a higher buyout if he has a bad year or two.

2. No raise/extension.
Positives: You don't reward a guy for not making the tournament. IF CCM is fired in the next two seasons, it will cost less because you didn't redo his contract today.

Negatives: If Martin has a good season next year, which is likely considering the roster, he is going to want a raise and extension that will be quite a bit more than what he'd get today. Also, not extending Martin is going to be used against him on the recruiting trail.

 

[Fijivol72]

only in America can you accomplish nothing and think you are entitled. No to raise, no to extension, and let him know that next year our expectations are to be a real tourny team and a win at least in the first round. If so we talk if not don't let the door hit you on the way out. Oh and by the way show some emotion so your team can play with some. Now GTFO of my office and recruit someone.

 

[SlyStone]

This guy gets it.

Doesn't have to be a huge raise, or even maybe any raise but something for him to remember and show your support (assuming Martin is the guy hart wants).

As you said, he blows up next and let's say painter finishes .500 again at purdue and they may be calling Zo. It's about market value, tony Barbee is making more than him, compare their records at their respective SEC schools.

It's the dice that the powers that be better roll. CCM gets this team in the dance next season his market value will increase. Purdue may not be the only team calling. On paper this team should be successful next season.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

There is hardly any evidence from an AD when a coach is timeline is up. Hell, we were told "Bruce is our guy" up until the night before the Michigan game, but everyone knew that it was inevidable that he would be canned.

Looking at the future somewhat logically....next year is Martin's best year at making the dance. If he misses, then what's the future hold? A rebuilding year in 2014 replacing 3 possibly 4 of your starters. Looking ahead at this point, it doesn't look like we possibly could make the dance in 2014/2015. We can, but just looking ahead, that would not be our year. 4 years without going to the tourney and the fanbase will be completely gone. They got 15,000 average this past year. That's ticket sold. Not attendance. Fans will be screaming for CCM to be fired next year. And season ticket holders will be dropping like flies. I for one will decline my 6 if we miss again. Hell, there is more fans against Martin now then are for him, IMO.

I think he will be fired if 1 of 2 things do not happen. 1. make the dance (which I think he will). 2. Bring in a top 15 - 20 recruiting class in 2014. Other than that Hart will be forced to fire CCM.

Volnation does not represent the majority of the Tennessee fan base, and IMO that's a common misconception...Tennessee attendance was actually over 16,500 and was 7th best in the country.

You are right that there's not usually evidence from the AD, however I do remember during the pearl era VQ and Lewis were dead on about what was truly going on. The AD isn't gonna come out and say exactly what's going on unless he's mike Hamilton, but from talks and vibes you can tell how the AD feels about a coach and like I've said Lewis and Quinn both think he's nowhere near the hot seat and that while the fans may think so they aren't the ones who make the decision.

As I said we can agree to disagree as neither can technically prove the other right or wrong...I'm simply giving you reliable members of the media with a proven track record of being right and telling you what they're saying. If you can show me some people who are as reliable saying the opposite I might buy it, but jimmy hyams opinion on what he would do doesn't sell me on it.

Am I reading your last paragraph right that in your opinion if Cuonzo makes the dance but doesn't sign a top 20 class he will be canned?

 

[bleedingTNorange]

It's the dice that the powers that be better roll. CCM gets this team in the dance next season his market value will increase. Purdue may not be the only team calling. On paper this team should be successful next season.

Exactly, you and Ziti get that. If we do nothing now and next year he has us top 25 l year, get a 5 seed and make the sweet 16 1. He's gonna want a much bigger raise and extension than he currently wants and 2. You're likely going to be competing with other teams for his services.

It may come down to does Hart view Martin as the coach he sees and wants here in 10 years, from everything I've read and heard Hart is a big Martin fan and wants him here.

 

[MemphisCanes]

Volnation does not represent the majority of the Tennessee fan base, and IMO that's a common misconception...Tennessee attendance was actually over 16,500 and was 7th best in the country.

You are right that there's not usually evidence from the AD, however I do remember during the pearl era VQ and Lewis were dead on about what was truly going on. The AD isn't gonna come out and say exactly what's going on unless he's mike Hamilton, but from talks and vibes you can tell how the AD feels about a coach and like I've said Lewis and Quinn both think he's nowhere near the hot seat and that while the fans may think so they aren't the ones who make the decision.

As I said we can agree to disagree as neither can technically prove the other right or wrong...I'm simply giving you reliable members of the media with a proven track record of being right and telling you what they're saying. If you can show me some people who are as reliable saying the opposite I might buy it, but jimmy hyams opinion on what he would do doesn't sell me on it.

Am I reading your last paragraph right that in your opinion if Cuonzo makes the dance but doesn't sign a top 20 class he will be canned?

I'd say so, why keep him?

 

[BigZiti09]

Exactly, you and Ziti get that. If we do nothing now and next year he has us top 25 l year, get a 5 seed and make the sweet 16 1. He's gonna want a much bigger raise and extension than he currently wants and 2. You're likely going to be competing with other teams for his services.

It may come down to does Hart view Martin as the coach he sees and wants here in 10 years, from everything I've read and heard Hart is a big Martin fan and wants him here.

Yes. I'm going to bet Hart reworks his deal now. Business wise, it's probably the wiser move. Our fanbase won't like it and I totally understand that.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I'd say so, why keep him?

So if we make the sweet 16, return Hubbs and stokes so we can only bring in 3 guys in that class, if it's not top 25 class you can him?

This years class won't be top 25 according to some but includes a 5* and 2 borderline top 150 guys...so if he makes a sweet 16 and signs a similar class you fire him?

Ok gotcha.

 

[BigZiti09]

I'd say so, why keep him?

LOL. You've got the perfect coach in Memphis for what you want. Recruiting championships and underachieving on the court.

 

[MemphisCanes]

So if we make the sweet 16, return Hubbs and stokes so we can only bring in 3 guys in that class, if it's not top 25 class you can him?

This years class won't be top 25 according to some but includes a 5* and 2 borderline top 150 guys...so if he makes a sweet 16 and signs a similar class you fire him?

Ok gotcha.

Ah, I misread that, I thought it was predicated on him not making the dance or bringing in a good class.

 

[whobethis16]

So if we make the sweet 16, return Hubbs and stokes so we can only bring in 3 guys in that class, if it's not top 25 class you can him?

This years class won't be top 25 according to some but includes a 5* and 2 borderline top 150 guys...so if he makes a sweet 16 and signs a similar class you fire him?

Ok gotcha.

Don't know if he edited it, but I read "1 of 2 things doesn't happen". If he makes the tourney, but doesn't sign a top 25 class, he's good, or if he signs a top 25 class but doesn't make the tourney he's good.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Ah, I misread that, I thought it was predicated on him not making the dance or bringing in a good class.

Ok I was about to say.

 

[MemphisCanes]

Although, it's tougher question if he makes the dance and gets bounced first round. I think Hart probably keeps in on for a fourth year in that instance though.

But if he's not in the dance and doesn't have a killer class in 2014 set up, he's out. If he can't manage to get into the dance with the roster he'll have next season, I don't see it happening in 2014.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Don't know if he edited it, but I read "1 of 2 things doesn't happen". If he makes the tourney, but doesn't sign a top 25 class, he's good, or if he signs a top 25 class but doesn't make the tourney he's good.

He said he will be fired if 1 of 2 things does not happen...doesn't that say that if either of those 2 things don't happen he's out?

Or did I misread that?

 

[MemphisCanes]

He said he will be fired if 1 of 2 things does not happen...doesn't that say that if either of those 2 things don't happen he's out?

Or did I misread that?

I think he'll need one of the following to keep his job for the 2014 season:

1. Make the dance in 2013.

2. Have a really good recruiting class coming in, that will give him a shot at the dance in 2014. Doesn't have to be top 25, per se.

 

[GiveHimSixGoVols]

Exactly, you and Ziti get that. If we do nothing now and next year he has us top 25 l year, get a 5 seed and make the sweet 16 1. He's gonna want a much bigger raise and extension than he currently wants and 2. You're likely going to be competing with other teams for his services.

It may come down to does Hart view Martin as the coach he sees and wants here in 10 years, from everything I've read and heard Hart is a big Martin fan and wants him here.

You have the misconception that all of a sudden Martin will be a hot commodity if he takes us to the tourney next year but the truth will be he has taken a MAJOR program to the tourney 1 out of three years he has been here. The truth still is he has underachieved as the head coach of Tennessee. Not really an argument there.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I think he'll need one of the following to keep his job for the 2014 season:

1. Make the dance in 2013.

2. Have a really good recruiting class coming in, that will give him a shot at the dance in 2014. Doesn't have to be top 25, per se.

IMO I would agree, I just don't know that Hart necessarily will, but time will tell. Hopefully it doesn't come to that though and we make it in easily next year.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

You have the misconception that all of a sudden Martin will be a hot commodity if he takes us to the tourney next year but the truth will be he has taken a MAJOR program to the tourney 1 out of three years he has been here. The truth still is he has underachieved as the head coach of Tennessee. Not really an argument there.

Lmao ok.

He wasn't expected to make the dance the first year and overachieved the expectations set...year two he likely met or slightly underachieved expectations when factoring his best player being out for the year.

If he makes the dance next year and has them top 25, no he hasn't underachieved in his 3 years, sorry man.

He's 3rd in the SEC in active win % behind cal and billy d, spin it how you want but that's the truth.

If your expectations were for him to come in and have us at 25 wins and dancing from his first year on then thats your own damn fault.

 

[whobethis16]

He said he will be fired if 1 of 2 things does not happen...doesn't that say that if either of those 2 things don't happen he's out?

Or did I misread that?

He's saying:

Scenario 1: Vols make NCAA Tourney, but don't sign a top 25 class, he's still coach.

Scenario 2: Vols miss NCAA Tourney, but Martin signs a top 25 class, he's still coach.

Scenario 3: Vols miss NCAA Tourney, Martin does not sign a top 25 class, he's fired.

Essentially, 1 of 2 things must happen: make NCAA tourney or sign top 25 class. If he does not do one of those things, he's fired.

 

[SCvol333]

I am very surprised he is asking for an extension - next year is make or break - he hasnt gotten to or won a game in the tourney at this point and he is asking for an extension - doesnt make sense to me

i would tell him not only is he not getting an extension but he better win a tourney game next year or the door will be touching his $#%