Martin wants an extension and am sure a raise (rumor)

#151
#151
whobethis16 said:
He's saying:

Scenario 1: Vols make NCAA Tourney, but don't sign a top 25 class, he's still coach.

Scenario 2: Vols miss NCAA Tourney, but Martin signs a top 25 class, he's still coach.

Scenario 3: Vols miss NCAA Tourney, Martin does not sign a top 25 class, he's fired.

Essentially, 1 of 2 things must happen: make NCAA tourney or sign top 25 class. If he does not do one of those things, he's fired.
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If that's what he means then ok, I misread it. I would agree but like I've said idk that Hart would.
 
#152
#152
Because recruiting is so dirty in college BB, I can see why you would extend his contract for 3 more years, but his pay stays the same and his current buyout stays the same. If you want to do something for him give a bonus for an NCAA tourney birth if he can make it next year. The fact that after 2 years of CCM people are still saying that Maymon is our best player should indicate that he is not getting the job done.
 
#153
#153
bleedingTNorange said:
Volnation does not represent the majority of the Tennessee fan base, and IMO that's a common misconception...Tennessee attendance was actually over 16,500 and was 7th best in the country.

You are right that there's not usually evidence from the AD, however I do remember during the pearl era VQ and Lewis were dead on about what was truly going on. The AD isn't gonna come out and say exactly what's going on unless he's mike Hamilton, but from talks and vibes you can tell how the AD feels about a coach and like I've said Lewis and Quinn both think he's nowhere near the hot seat and that while the fans may think so they aren't the ones who make the decision.

As I said we can agree to disagree as neither can technically prove the other right or wrong...I'm simply giving you reliable members of the media with a proven track record of being right and telling you what they're saying. If you can show me some people who are as reliable saying the opposite I might buy it, but jimmy hyams opinion on what he would do doesn't sell me on it.

Am I reading your last paragraph right that in your opinion if Cuonzo makes the dance but doesn't sign a top 20 class he will be canned?
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We are 7th in the country after Martin's second year. That's a drop off of approximately 3,500 people per game during the Pearl era of around 20,000 per game. Drop another 3,500 fans (which they will in 2014/2015 if they don't make the dance next year, IMO) and we will officially be back to the Buzz years.

Looking at it a different way, attendance has dropped 2,309 fans per game between year 1 and year 2 of Martin's tenure. Drop another 2,309 next year, and we drop to around 17. That kind of drop over a 2 year span is Martin's salary.

One thing I think we have learned about Hart in his short tenure, is that NOBODY except Hart knows what he is going to do. Everyone is speculating no matter who it is. Gruden can attest to that.
 
#154
#154
Cuonzo deserves a raise and an extension to show commitment to him and his program. They do not need to change his buy out so that if he does not reach our teams goals then he gets fired and the raise and extension mean essentially nothing.
 
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#155
#155
bleedingTNorange said:
Lmao ok.

He wasn't expected to make the dance the first year and overachieved the expectations set...year two he likely met or slightly underachieved expectations when factoring his best player being out for the year.

If he makes the dance next year and has them top 25, no he hasn't underachieved in his 3 years, sorry man.

He's 3rd in the SEC in active win % behind cal and billy d, spin it how you want but that's the truth.

If your expectations were for him to come in and have us at 25 wins and dancing from his first year on then thats your own damn fault.
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you could also say that in year 1 he was unranked and 9-9 out of conference and in year 2 he returned 3 of 4 best players, 3 of 4 top scorers, and 2 of 3 top rebounders yet went unranked and didnt make the tourney - he also lost 13 times and had the 201st ranked offense in the country

i mean there a couple ways you could spin this

he has now lost 28 times in his 2 years here
 
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#156
#156
bleedingTNorange said:
If that's what he means then ok, I misread it. I would agree but like I've said idk that Hart would.
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I agree with you on almost everything. Just trying to interpret a little. But I think if Martin doesn't make the tournament next year, no matter the class, he's in hot water.
 
#157
#157
bleedingTNorange said:
Volnation does not represent the majority of the Tennessee fan base, and IMO that's a common misconception...Tennessee attendance was actually over 16,500 and was 7th best in the country.

You are right that there's not usually evidence from the AD, however I do remember during the pearl era VQ and Lewis were dead on about what was truly going on. The AD isn't gonna come out and say exactly what's going on unless he's mike Hamilton, but from talks and vibes you can tell how the AD feels about a coach and like I've said Lewis and Quinn both think he's nowhere near the hot seat and that while the fans may think so they aren't the ones who make the decision.

As I said we can agree to disagree as neither can technically prove the other right or wrong...I'm simply giving you reliable members of the media with a proven track record of being right and telling you what they're saying. If you can show me some people who are as reliable saying the opposite I might buy it, but jimmy hyams opinion on what he would do doesn't sell me on it.

Am I reading your last paragraph right that in your opinion if Cuonzo makes the dance but doesn't sign a top 20 class he will be canned?
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No...I think if he makes the dance, he is fine for a couple years. Or if he doesn't make the dance, but has a big recruiting class, then he will still be coaching here in 2014/2015.
 
#158
#158
SCvol333 said:
you could also say that in year 1 he was unranked and 9-9 out of conference and in year 2 he returned 3 of 4 best players, 3 of 4 top scorers, and 2 of 3 top rebounders yet went unranked and didnt make the tourney - he also lost 13 times and had the 201st ranked offense in the country

i mean there a couple ways you could spin this

he has now lost 28 times in his 2 years here
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You could also say that he inherited the worst roster since the Kevin O'Neil era and was forced to add bodies in his first class while the NCAA was in our backyard and sanctions loomed.
 
#159
#159
If Martin is one of the lowest paid coaches in the SEC, then he needs a raise. It is as simple as that. Considering the interest with current recruits, back-to-back 20 win seasons, and back-to-back 5* recruits he has earned it. Would have loved to mention the fact that none of these coaches finish out their contract anyway, but a few folks have already beat me to it.
Wish our fans would take a step back and look at some of the schools that were patient with their coaches, and see where they are now.
 
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#160
#160
BigZiti09 said:
You could also say that he inherited the worst roster since the Kevin O'Neil era and was forced to add bodies in his first class while the NCAA was in our backyard and sanctions loomed.
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like i said - there are a few different ways you can spin it :)

but it would it be difficult as an AD for me to stomach an extension at this point
 
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#161
#161
volbeast33 said:
Cuonzo deserves a raise and an extension to show commitment to him and his program. They do not need to change his buy out so that if he does not reach our teams goals then he gets fired and the raise and extension mean essentially nothing.
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I'd have no problem with this.
 
#163
#163
BigZiti09 said:
You could also say that he inherited the worst roster since the Kevin O'Neil era and was forced to add bodies in his first class while the NCAA was in our backyard and sanctions loomed.
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say what? I think Zo has done a decent job but he didnt walk into that bad of a situation.
 
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#165
#165
zjcvols said:
I'd have no problem with this.
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Then in essence it isn't an extension at all. The whole purpose of an extension is to show your commitment to the coach, but if it if you dont change the buyout then you aren't really showing any commitment to the coach at all
 
#166
#166
Ideally, if you were going to give him a small raise and extend him, you'd want to negotiate his buyout amount down a little as well.

I think that would be a win-win. You show confidence in your coach, get him paid his market value, extend his contract so that it can't be used against us in recruiting, hedge against him coming back for a raise next year when he could have some real negotiating power, protect the University by lowering his buyout amount.
 
#167
#167
He works a bit differently than many of us do at work. I don't work to contract terms but for a salary. He is under contract that many of us don't have at work. At the end of that conrtract THAT HE AGREED TO you look at his progress and adjust salary accordingly. Until then, short of a deep run in the NCAAs, you let him live under the terms of his existing contract.
 
#168
#168
johnnybravo said:
We are 7th in the country after Martin's second year. That's a drop off of approximately 3,500 people per game during the Pearl era of around 20,000 per game. Drop another 3,500 fans (which they will in 2014/2015 if they don't make the dance next year, IMO) and we will officially be back to the Buzz years.

Looking at it a different way, attendance has dropped 2,309 fans per game between year 1 and year 2 of Martin's tenure. Drop another 2,309 next year, and we drop to around 17. That kind of drop over a 2 year span is Martin's salary.

One thing I think we have learned about Hart in his short tenure, is that NOBODY except Hart knows what he is going to do. Everyone is speculating no matter who it is. Gruden can attest to that.
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Pearls last year was just over 19k so it's actually a 2500 attendance drop, another 2500 puts us at 14k which is still top 20 in the country. The hype is gonne be high for next year so I'm actually guessing attendance goes up and not down.

Once again, Lewis and VQ were consistently on the money through the whole football search in regards to what Hart was doing...did they say Gruden was coming here? No.

Like I've said, we can agree to disagree as neither one of us can prove the other right or wrong...I'm simply going off those who have a very good track record and what they're saying. Rememeber VQ is the same group that said Hart was looking for a way to keep Dooley around, if he would've beaten Vandy there was a lot of speculation he'd have been retained....how much had attendane dipped under him? Yet Hart was going to try and bring him back, just remember that.
 
#169
#169
volbeast33 said:
Cuonzo deserves a raise and an extension to show commitment to him and his program. They do not need to change his buy out so that if he does not reach our teams goals then he gets fired and the raise and extension mean essentially nothing.
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Bingo. And the fact you are saying this of all people should mean something lol
 
#171
#171
No raise no extension and I would tell him if he doesn't make the tourney and recruit at least a top twenty class in 2014 that he will be fired. To me his existence as Tennessee basketball coach depends on next years record and next years recruiting. If both aren't excellent see you later.
 
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#172
#172
Volfan2012 said:
No raise no extension and I would tell him if he doesn't make the tourney and recruit at least a top twenty class in 2014 that he will be fired. To me his existence as Tennessee basketball coach depends on next years record and next years recruiting. If both aren't excellent see you later.
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That'd send a great message to recruits. Tony Barbee makes more than Cuonzo. Let that one sink in. It would seem from the outside that Dave Hart isn't confident in his coach. Good luck landing that top 20 class with other SEC coaches citing this situation to support their argument that UT basketball isn't stable and kids shouldn't go there.

Cuonzo is worth more than he's making based simply on the market, relative to his success compared to a few of the coaches making more than him. It seems counter-intuitive to say that he should get a raise based on the team's lack of post-season success, but that's not what this is about. Help your basketball program by compensating your coach appropriately and showing good faith. Cut him if he fails, but at least do what you can as an athletic department to help your program win now.
 
#173
#173
Despite Martin's shortcomings, he makes less than Tony Barbee.

He needs a bump just to send a message money wise we are fine if we do have to fire him in the next two years.
 
#174
#174
zjcvols said:
Despite Martin's shortcomings, he makes less than Tony Barbee.

He needs a bump just to send a message money wise we are fine if we do have to fire him in the next two years.
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You must be listening to the radio today too.
 
#175
#175
MannyD said:
That'd send a great message to recruits. Tony Barbee makes more than Cuonzo. Let that one sink in. It would seem from the outside that Dave Hart isn't confident in his coach. Good luck landing that top 20 class with other SEC coaches citing this situation to support their argument that UT basketball isn't stable and kids shouldn't go there.

Cuonzo is worth more than he's making based simply on the market, relative to his success compared to a few of the coaches making more than him. It seems counter-intuitive to say that he should get a raise based on the team's lack of post-season success, but that's not what this is about. Help your basketball program by compensating your coach appropriately and showing good faith. Cut him if he fails, but at least do what you can as an athletic department to help your program win now.
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Sorry but he hasn't done anything to get a raise. He has done enough to keep his job another season and be evaluated on what happens both in recruiting and his record for that season. His pay shouldn't be based on what someone else is making he agreed to his present contract at the rate of pay he is receiving. He has everything he needs at Tennessee to be a success and I don't consider his first two seasons succeeding.
 
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