Mass Shooting in Atlanta

[Weezer]

WTH? So the constitution codifies the rights of freedom of the press, the right to peacefully assemble, the right to keep and bear arms, but those are actually rights that god granted?
You can't be serious.

Those all fall under liberty. Men should be free to live as they want, to pursue life, liberty, and happiness, as long as they do not infringe upon the rights of others.

 

[Weezer]

Your point is????????

Apparently over your head.

 

[hog88]

I would never claim that in the absence of government, humans have no rights.......that's is idiotic!!
Humans have the rights to which humans agree.

We do not have to agree that I have the right to self defense, speak my mind or practice a religion of my choice. It takes humans to agree that they will restrict those rights by force.

 

[Tastylicks]

It’s the right to self defense. Guns are just a tool.

Cool, so we can defend ourselves with other tools

 

[hog88]

Cool, so we can defend ourselves with other tools

Yes, why is that even a question?

 

[Tastylicks]

Yes, why is that even a question?

It wasn't a question.

 

[luthervol]

Those all fall under liberty. Men should be free to live as they want, to pursue life, liberty, and happiness, as long as they do not infringe upon the rights of others.

So the first amendment is about liberties more than rights, but the 2nd amendment is a sacred right and not a liberty?

 

[Weezer]

I go back to the Declaration of Independence, "to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."

 

[luthervol]

We do not have to agree that I have the right to self defense, speak my mind or practice a religion of my choice. It takes humans to agree that they will restrict those rights by force.

Humans within the society certainly have to agree.

 

[Weezer]

So the first amendment is about liberties more than rights, but the 2nd amendment is a sacred right and not a liberty?

Liberty and rights go hand in hand, luther. I feel like I'm trying to explain this to a 3 year old.

 

[RikidyBones]

Liberty and rights go hand in hand, luther. I feel like I'm trying to explain this to a 3 year old.

Some people deserve government oppression.

 

[Weezer]

Some people deserve government oppression.

Most people forget that true power was never meant to rest in the government, but in the people. The power of government is derived from the consent of the governed.

 

[luthervol]

Liberty and rights go hand in hand, luther. I feel like I'm trying to explain this to a 3 year old.

You are talking in circles.
Are freedom of press, freedom to assemble, freedom of religion and gun ownership equal in their balance of liberty / right.

 

[Weezer]

You are talking in circles.
Are freedom of press, freedom to assemble, freedom of religion and gun ownership equal in their balance of liberty / right.

Our right to liberty is what allows us those freedoms, and they are all equal.

 

[luthervol]

Our right to liberty is what allows us those freedoms, and they are all equal.

I have no idea what we are even debating any longer.
So rights are god given and liberties are created by man to protect those god given rights????

Later, going golfing.

 

[Weezer]

I have no idea what we are even debating any longer.
So rights are god given and liberties are created by man to protect those god given rights????

Later, going golfing.

Liberty is a right.

Luther, have you read any of our country's historical documents? Do you have any understanding of the beliefs our country was founded on? It honestly doesn't seem like you do.

 

[BeecherVol]

Humans within the society certainly have to agree.

Not really.
We have posted traffic laws across the country that are being broken literally every second of every day. And thats just an easy one. Come to think of it, I dont think I know anyone that believes every posted law is agreeable.

The term "gun violence" leaves out the most important factor in violence. Most dont want to talk about that factor because there's nothing anyone can do about it.

 

[BeecherVol]

Cool, so we can defend ourselves with other tools

If you choose to do so, yes. And that is the way it should be. Your choice..

 

[hog88]

Humans within the society certainly have to agree.

No they don’t have to agree, they simply have to respect each other’s rights and leave each other alone. I don’t have to agree with you to coexist.

 

[MG1968]

I don't disagree. Thats why I'm here. Although when I was a student at USC I went to Knoxville for a football game and I was treated badly. I haven't forgiven you guys....yet.

I haven’t forgiven Johnny Majors for losing to that mullet-headed freak, Steve Taneyhill.

 

[luthervol]

Liberty is a right.

Luther, have you read any of our country's historical documents? Do you have any understanding of the beliefs our country was founded on? It honestly doesn't seem like you do.

I was curious if you guys have.

The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity
But the widespread existence in 18th-century America of a school of religious thought called Deism complicates the actual beliefs of the Founders. Drawing from the scientific and philosophical work of such figures as Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Isaac Newton, and John Locke, Deists argued that human experience and rationality—rather than religious dogma and mystery—determine the validity of human beliefs. In his widely read The Age of Reason, Thomas Paine, the principal American exponent of Deism, called Christianity “a fable.” Paine, the protégé of Benjamin Franklin, denied “that the Almighty ever did communicate anything to man, by…speech,…language, or…vision.” Postulating a distant deity whom he called “Nature’s God” (a term also used in the Declaration of Independence), Paine declared in a “profession of faith”:

I believe in one God, and no more; and I hope for happiness beyond this life. I believe in the equality of man; and I believe that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and in endeavoring to make our fellow-creatures happy.​

Washington’s pastors in Philadelphia clearly viewed him as significantly influenced by Deism.

 

[luthervol]

Not really.
We have posted traffic laws across the country that are being broken literally every second of every day. And thats just an easy one. Come to think of it, I dont think I know anyone that believes every posted law is agreeable.

The term "gun violence" leaves out the most important factor in violence. Most dont want to talk about that factor because there's nothing anyone can do about it.

I never said everyone has to agree with a law for it to be a valid and needed law.

 

[C-south]

No they don’t have to agree, they simply have to respect each other’s rights and leave each other alone. I don’t have to agree with you to coexist.

This is something they can’t get past.

 

[luthervol]

No they don’t have to agree, they simply have to respect each other’s rights and leave each other alone. I don’t have to agree with you to coexist.

Gorg thought it was his god given right to bang rocks and grunt in the cave all night long. Urf and Blark thought it was their god given right to have peace and quiet in the cave after the sun went down. One night, Urf and Blark beat the hell out of Gorg with clubs. The next day the three decided to just make it a rule....one that led to the overall keeping of the greatest amount of personal freedoms. Even they realized individual personal freedoms often conflicted.

 

[hog88]

Gorg thought it was his god given right to bang rocks and grunt in the cave all night long. Urf and Blark thought it was their god given right to have peace and quiet in the cave after the sun went down. One night, Urf and Blark beat the hell out of Gorg with clubs. The next day the three decided to just make it a rule....one that led to the overall keeping of the greatest amount of personal freedoms. Even they realized individual personal freedoms often conflicted.

Here you go with the absurd.

Did they take away his right to own rocks?