Mass Shooting in Atlanta

[luthervol]

Really, you are fine with us bearing arms in schools, government buildings, out in public?

Of course not. The 2a didn't give you the right to carry a gun anywhere you wished. That's absurd and highlights why I said I am for the correct interpretation of 2a.

 

[LouderVol]

Of course not. The 2a didn't give you the right to carry a gun anywhere you wished. That's absurd and highlights why I said I am for the correct interpretation of 2a.

So you believe our right to bear arms should be infringed.

Glad we cleared that up quickly.

Got any more bs about supporting the Consitution you need clarified?

 

[Rickyvol77]

They've obviously learned from it; which is what rational and reasonable people do.
Now if you want to see what irrational and unreasonable people do, look no further than Koresh and the nut jobs at Ruby Ridge.

I don't disagree that Koresh and his followers were nutjobs, although even nutjobs can have their civil rights violated by the government if they screw things up bad and do illegal things (which the ATF did). What made Randy Weaver and his family "nutjobs" to you? Are you even aware of the actual facts of that incident? You should really educate yourself on what happened before you comment, because there is a reason the federal government had to pay him money and apologize to him

 

[luthervol]

So you believe our right to bear arms should be infringed.

Glad we cleared that up quickly.

Got any more bs about supporting the Consitution you need clarified?

Not at all. Your right to bear arms in no way means you can carry a gun anywhere you wish.

 

[luthervol]

I don't disagree that Koresh and his followers were nutjobs, although even nutjobs can have their civil rights violated by the government if they screw things up bad and do illegal things (which the ATF did). What made Randy Weaver and his family "nutjobs" to you? Are you even aware of the actual facts of that incident? You should really educate yourself on what happened before you comment, because there is a reason the federal government had to pay him money and apologize to him

He failed to appear in court and then refused to surrender in answer to his failure to appear. That was nutty.

 

[hog88]

Of course not. The 2a didn't give you the right to carry a gun anywhere you wished. That's absurd and highlights why I said I am for the correct interpretation of 2a.

This is correct, property rights trump all other rights. But since the taxpayers own ALL government property it has no right to bar me from being armed on "government property".

 

[Rickyvol77]

He failed to appear in court and then refused to surrender in answer to his failure to appear. That was nutty.

He failed to appear in court (on a completely made up charge by a snitch who lied to avoid jail) because they didn't mail him the correct court date and he never once got notice of it.

He didn't refuse to surrender, the ATF sent two camouflaged guys with masks and armed with rifles miles through the woods on his property, who then shot his dog and killed his teenage son. He then thought the ATF was trying to kill him, which was then made apparent by their illegal and unusual order (according to many experts, the FBI, and federal judges) of "killing him on sight no matter what"which resulted in his wife being killed while holding a baby. Again he wasn't a "nutjob", and the entire criminal case against him was completely false with no prove of any wrongdoing...

I would encourage you to actually attend one of the LEO training sessions on these two incidents and realize why your faith in the precious federal government is often based on silly emotional needs and wanting some false utopia rather than actual Constitutional and logical aspect of a legal society and justice.

 

[luthervol]

This is correct, property rights trump all other rights. But since the taxpayers own ALL government property it has no right to bar me from being armed on "government property".

That's not the way the courts have always interpreted the constitution.

 

[hog88]

That's not the way the courts have always interpreted the constitution.

Courts are wrong pretty often.

 

[luthervol]

He failed to appear in court (on a completely made up charge by a snitch who lied to avoid jail) because they didn't mail him the correct court date and he never once got notice of it.

He didn't refuse to surrender, the ATF sent two camouflaged guys with masks and armed with rifles miles through the woods on his property, who then shot his dog and killed his teenage son. He then thought the ATF was trying to kill him, which was then made apparent by their illegal and unusual order (according to many experts, the FBI, and federal judges) of "killing him on sight no matter what"which resulted in his wife being killed while holding a baby. Again he wasn't a "nutjob", and the entire criminal case against him was completely false with no prove of any wrongdoing...

I would encourage you to actually attend one of the LEO training sessions on these two incidents and realize why your faith in the precious federal government is often based on silly emotional needs and wanting some false utopia rather than actual Constitutional and logical aspect of a legal society and justice.

I have no great faith in the Federal Government. Just a hell of a lot more faith than I have in other entities that rise to fill the void when there is a lack of government.

Critical distinction.

 

[hog88]

I have no great faith in the Federal Government. Just a hell of a lot more faith than I have in other entities that rise to fill the void when there is a lack of government.

Critical distinction.

LOL

You worship at the alter of the federal government.

 

[luthervol]

Courts are wrong pretty often.

You've got that right.
But that's what we have......at least according to the constitution.

 

[luthervol]

LOL

You worship at the alter of the federal government.

That's just one more example of how you do not know nearly as much as you assume you know.

 

[Rickyvol77]

I have no great faith in the Federal Government. Just a hell of a lot more faith than I have in other entities that rise to fill the void when there is a lack of government.

Critical distinction.

I notice how you still ignored to answer what i stated about Weaver. Do you really believe he was "nutty" because two camo guys came unannounced and killed his dog and teenage son over a supposed missed court date that he didn't know about over a charge the government created out of thin air

 

[luthervol]

I notice how you still ignored to answer what i stated about Weaver. Do you really believe he was "nutty" because two camo guys came unannounced and killed his dog and teenage son over a supposed missed court date that he didn't know about over a charge the government created out of thin air

Weaver’s troubles with the U.S. federal government began when he attended several meetings of the Aryan Nations, a white supremacist group, at its compound in Hayden Lake, Idaho, in the late 1980s. Weaver was not a member of the Aryan Nations, but he shared the group’s white supremacist and antigovernment views. At one of the meetings, Weaver befriended an informant of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), who purchased two illegal sawed-off shotguns from Weaver in October 1989.

He sounds like a nut and a criminal.

 

[LouderVol]

Not at all. Your right to bear arms in no way means you can carry a gun anywhere you wish.

Shall not be infringed upon.

I dont know how you go through the mental gymnastics of ignoring that and other issues.

ID for voting = infringement.
ID for buying a gun = not an infringement.

You are full of inconsistency on the subject matter.

 

[Rickyvol77]

I have no great faith in the Federal Government. Just a hell of a lot more faith than I have in other entities that rise to fill the void when there is a lack of government.

Critical distinction.

No one is advocating to replace the government completely. Just to reduce the federal government, it's budget spending, it's size, and it's powers to what the Founding Fathers gave it

 

[Tastylicks]

No one is advocating to replace the government completely. Just to reduce the federal government, it's budget spending, it's size, and it's powers to what the Founding Fathers gave it

I wish it could happen. such a pipe dream

 

[luthervol]

Shall not be infringed upon.

I dont know how you go through the mental gymnastics of ignoring that and other issues.

ID for voting = infringement.
ID for buying a gun = not an infringement.

You are full of inconsistency on the subject matter.

When did I ever say an ID required for voting was an infringement?
I don't believe it is an infringement in either case?
How about you? Do you believe it is an infringement?

 

[Rickyvol77]

Weaver’s troubles with the U.S. federal government began when he attended several meetings of the Aryan Nations, a white supremacist group, at its compound in Hayden Lake, Idaho, in the late 1980s. Weaver was not a member of the Aryan Nations, but he shared the group’s white supremacist and antigovernment views. At one of the meetings, Weaver befriended an informant of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), who purchased two illegal sawed-off shotguns from Weaver in October 1989.

He sounds like a nut and a criminal.

Why don't you read up on the rest of that "wikipedia" page story (or look at the actual reports on the subject) about the ATF/FBI's actions. They had NO criminal charges against Weaver that were found to be accurate or provable, and they never told Weaver the correct date to appear in court (in fact they screwed it up three times). They wanted Weaver to wear a wire to go to Aryan Nations meetings as a spy because he knew some of them from gun shows and other places, and he told them to leave him alone. They then manufactured charges using another snitch who was found to be lying to try and force Weaver to be their spy.

Again, Weaver could believe in Bigfoot, but it doesn't change anything that he was 100% right in his assessment of the government and their handling of his case and this issue. You should go speak to actual LEO, FBI, TBI, US Attorney, etc. trainers and speakers and listen to their assessment of this case. The government was 100% in the wrong and illegally handled the entire thing from start to finish and Weaver and Harris were acquitted while the ATF/FBI had people indicted and fired.

 

[LouderVol]

When did I ever say an ID required for voting was an infringement?
I don't believe it is an infringement in either case?
How about you? Do you believe it is an infringement?

A simple ID, nope. Avoids fraud.

So you have no problem with the state of Georgia requiring an ID to get a mail in ballot?

 

[Tastylicks]

A simple ID, nope. Avoids fraud.

So you have no problem with the state of Georgia requiring an ID to get a mail in ballot?

If only it was so simple. We have decades of history of a "simple ID" to vote being used nefariously. Don't you guys study African American history at UT???

 

[luthervol]

Why don't you read up on the rest of that "wikipedia" page story (or look at the actual reports on the subject) about the ATF/FBI's actions. They had NO criminal charges against Weaver that were found to be accurate or provable, and they never told Weaver the correct date to appear in court (in fact they screwed it up three times). They wanted Weaver to wear a wire to go to Aryan Nations meetings as a spy because he knew some of them from gun shows and other places, and he told them to leave him alone. They then manufactured charges using another snitch who was found to be lying to try and force Weaver to be their spy.

Again, Weaver could believe in Bigfoot, but it doesn't change anything that he was 100% right in his assessment of the government and their handling of his case and this issue. You should go speak to actual LEO, FBI, TBI, US Attorney, etc. trainers and speakers and listen to their assessment of this case. The government was 100% in the wrong and illegally handled the entire thing from start to finish and Weaver and Harris were acquitted while the ATF/FBI had people indicted and fired.

It wasn't "wikipedia". Maybe you should read it.
Ruby Ridge | History, Facts, Aftermath, & Map

 

[luthervol]

A simple ID, nope. Avoids fraud.

So you have no problem with the state of Georgia requiring an ID to get a mail in ballot?

And you do not believe the ID requirement is an 2a infringement?
I'm not sure how mail in ballot request process works under the newest law. I'll let you know.

 

[RockyTop85]

That's not the way the courts have always interpreted the constitution.

Because it’s silly and wrong. In any joint ownership venture, the owners can set rules for use of the property. They usually do it by forming an organization that looks an awful lot like a government to resolve disputed issues.

I don’t agree with either side in this discussion on the 2A. Our practice of letting states do their own thing worked fine for over 200 years. We didn’t even have a Supreme Court case on the second amendment until 2008. Having one more hotly contested issue become centralized isn’t what we need.

Nearly every issue that comes up on here would be resolved or at least the temperature would be turned way down if we moved back towards something akin to the pre-civil war or pre-New Deal relationship between states and federal government. Let California be California and let Tennessee be Tennessee.

Doesn’t seem like either party wants to do that, anymore.