Mass shootings in Maine

[hog88]

We've gotten away from hard labor. Prisons aren't hard work anymore. They basically just work the prison to keep it operational. Not any worse than keeping up with your own household. You have some of these non working mfckers busting rocks on a chain gang you might alter some behavior.

I'm all good with county work camps. My only issue is how to ensure they aren't turned into personal or county profit centers like they used to be.

Corporal punishment would be my preferred method of punishing first time offenders. A good beating will stick with a person and leave them reminders of what not to do.

 

[NorthDallas40]

They don't want to have an honest conversation about guns or mental health. They are incapable.

The only tack that is always taken is “ok now can we have the guns?!” I don’t even engage on these threads anymore it’s a waste of time. And they aren’t reading the room at all. The majority of legislation being passed in recent years is reinforcing constitutional carry and any gun limiting legislation is immediately challenged in court. So f$&@ ‘em and don’t engage even.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Much easier to just blame the guns. As to your idea, do you know of any studies comparing violence crime rates between untreated vs treated mental illness?

It's truly a lazy argument. It's "I don't know what to do so let's do something so we can say we did something."

This was a tragedy, but the truth be told this was again, avoidable. His superiors had him committed just a few short months ago. He literally was saying he had visions of shooting a place up and he followed through. Sounds like he was begging for help. Was there follow-up? He was an Army reservist with I assume comes with full access to firearms. If there were odds, most would bet that this would happen.

 

[Majors]

Are you sure "thoughts and prayers" won't help?

It’s a generic answer much like saying “gun reform”

 

[hog88]

Nah, you don't give a sh*t. Don't front.

We're all desensitized to it at this point. You won't lose a wink of sleep over this, neither will I.

Clearly, you're too stupid to realize, despite me overtly stating I'm not a gun "grabbing" advocate and that I've not hinted at limiting access to your guns. You're simply reverting to the same tribalism that you've always demonstrated and again show that you aren't capable of even recognizing that compromise is a possible solution. It's fascinating watching you guys circle the wagons and attack, even when the enemy isn't there.

No, I'm not going to loose a minutes of sleep over it but that doesn't mean I don't feel sympathy for those families. Actually I probably have more sympathy and respect for them than you and the gun grabbers since I'm not trying to use what was probably the worst day of their lives to advance a political issue.

I'm not accusing you of being a gun grabber, if you noticed in my posts I have separated you and the grabbers. However you have posted more than once about compromise yet you nor the grabbers have posited anything worth considering compromise. Just continual emotional battering.

 

[Septic]

If you want to have an honest conversation about guns, it’s an unavoidable topic.

Majority of the homicide in this country are committed by 13% of the population.

How do you know that and still think “it’s the guns! Too easy of access!”

You keep conflating homicide and mass shootings, is it because it helps you foist your race narrative?

Perhaps you can tell us how many schools, churches, night clubs, bowling alleys and festivals are committed by blacks?

 

[ClearwaterVol]

I'm all good with county work camps. My only issue is how to ensure they aren't turned into personal or county profit centers like they used to be.

Corporal punishment would be my preferred method of punishing first time offenders. A good beating will stick with a person and leave them reminders of what not to do.

Make the law federal for gun possession. Cases move faster and create work camps. Lease them to companies for road work and other hard thankless jobs. Specify in the law every dollar brought in will be used for debt repayment or mental health services related to gun violence or whatever.

 

[hog88]

I’ll try to take a look and see if I can find anything later today. I think if we take one step back from your hypothesis and simply try violent crime in general we may have more success

Maybe so but IMO not all violent crime would fit. For example a murder committed during a robbery isn't comparable to someone shooting up a school.

 

[Vol8188]

You keep conflating homicide and mass shootings, is it because it helps you foist your race narrative?

Perhaps you can tell us how many schools, churches, night clubs, bowling alleys and festivals are committed by blacks?

It’s because mass shooting is not a term with a single definition. Homicide rate however does have a single definition. So it’s a term that’s easier to discuss and the data is easier to compare because talking about the same thing.

If mass shootings are happening at a much higher rate in America than in Canada, there would be a massive disparity between homicide rates. But if we we remove the black population from the picture and look at the white rate, it’s far more on par with that of Canada than it is the overall US rate or the black rate.

Statistically that is a giant hole in your argument of “easier access”. Especially when you realize the white population has greater legal access

 

[Vol8188]

Maybe so but IMO not all violent crime would fit. For example a murder committed during a robbery isn't comparable to someone shooting up a school.

If your argument is about “disassociation” then I’d argue that the disassociation would make the robber on an ssri or other drugs more likely to commit that murder during a robbery than the untreated. So you should still see some increase

 

[hog88]

Make the law federal for gun possession. Cases move faster and create work camps. Lease them to companies for road work and other hard thankless jobs. Specify in the law every dollar brought in will be used for debt repayment or mental health services related to gun violence or whatever.

WTF? You seriously suggesting we expand federal authority and power? What on earth gives you this idea that federal control is less prone to corruption than local/state? Oh and yeah, the private prison system sure has been a rousing success. Giving people a profit motive to keep people locked up is a sure fire path to corruption.

 

[Majors]

I don't. I have searched and cannot find where there has ever been a study done on these mass murderers and their mental health medications. It's my stance that the CDC and the federal government doesn't want that data.

Not sure you’ll find it because of the big pharma backlash. It’s been stated many of those who’ve committed mass shootings have been on SSRI (Zoloft or Prozac). Those prescribing and those manufacturing at high rates don’t want to be attached to killings and brain altering chemicals.

Eric Harris going as far back to Columbine was on Luvox

 

[Septic]

No, I'm not going to loose a minutes of sleep over it but that doesn't mean I don't feel sympathy for those families. Actually I probably have more sympathy and respect for them than you and the gun grabbers since I'm not trying to use what was probably the worst day of their lives to advance a political issue.

I'm not accusing you of being a gun grabber, if you noticed in my posts I have separated you and the grabbers. However you have posted more than once about compromise yet you nor the grabbers have posited anything worth considering compromise. Just continual emotional battering.

Based on this thread and countless others - the gun grabbers aren't crying about having to compromise. To a degree they're open to working on a solution, whatever it may entail. It's the 2A guys who aren't "willing to give an inch."

Stomping your feet because someone is suggesting a solution to senseless mass shootings may involve compromise, whatever that might be - speaks volumes about you.

 

[whodeycin85]

You keep conflating homicide and mass shootings, is it because it helps you foist your race narrative?

Perhaps you can tell us how many schools, churches, night clubs, bowling alleys and festivals are committed by blacks?

47% of mass shooting were minority which is 26,% of the population.... that better?? Why is that,?

 

[ClearwaterVol]

WTF? You seriously suggesting we expand federal authority and power? What on earth gives you this idea that federal control is less prone to corruption than local/state? Oh and yeah, the private prison system sure has been a rousing success. Giving people a profit motive to keep people locked up is a sure fire path to corruption.

The law is already in place. Just specify the punishment I laid out.

 

[Septic]

It’s because mass shooting is not a term with a single definition. Homicide rate however does have a single definition. So it’s a term that’s easier to discuss and the data is easier to compare because talking about the same thing.

If mass shootings are happening at a much higher rate in America than in Canada, there would be a massive disparity between homicide rates. But if we we remove the black population from the picture and look at the white rate, it’s far more on par with that of Canada than it is the overall US rate or the black rate.

Statistically that is a giant hole in your argument of “easier access”. Especially when you realize the population has greater legal access

I've got to be honest - I never read further than one or two sentences of your posts before I chuckle at you trying to drag people into argumentative rabbit holes you think are more easily defended.

Again, I ask you what percentage of mass shootings (e.g. >10 people) are committed by blacks? You brought up race, it should be an easy answer to find.

Or is it easier for you to move the goal posts and back into the argument you want to have versus the one that is being had?

 

[Septic]

47% of mass shooting were minority which is 26,% of the population.... that better?? Why is that,?

Source?

 

[hog88]

It’s because mass shooting is not a term with a single definition. Homicide rate however does have a single definition. So it’s a term that’s easier to discuss and the data is easier to compare because talking about the same thing.

If mass shootings are happening at a much higher rate in America than in Canada, there would be a massive disparity between homicide rates. But if we we remove the black population from the picture and look at the white rate, it’s far more on par with that of Canada than it is the overall US rate or the black rate.

Statistically that is a giant hole in your argument of “easier access”. Especially when you realize the population has greater legal access

This is interesting. Might be a beginning to why most of these mass shooting events are committed by middle class white people.

Among individuals with 12-month depressive and anxiety disorders (n=516), blacks (14.6%) had significantly lower (p < 0.001) antidepressant use than whites (32.4%). Depression severity was significantly associated with higher antidepressant use for whites, but not blacks. Psychiatric disorders and vascular disease significantly increased the odds of past-year antidepressant use. The increased prevalence of antidepressant use associated with vascular disease was independent of diagnosable psychiatric disorders. Among respondents not meeting criteria for 12-month depressive and anxiety disorders, lifetime depressive and anxiety disorders and vascular disease significantly increased the odds of antidepressant use.

Antidepressant Use among Blacks and Whites in the United States

 

[Majors]

Based on this thread and countless others - the gun grabbers aren't crying about having to compromise. To a degree they're open to working on a solution, whatever it may entail. It's the 2A guys who aren't "willing to give an inch."

Stomping your feet because someone is suggesting a solution to senseless mass shootings may involve compromise, whatever that might be - speaks volumes about you.

Compromise? I don’t own a gun but I see crime increasing coast to coast. The compromise is feeling protected/safe in the place you choose to live.

 

[hog88]

If your argument is about “disassociation” then I’d argue that the disassociation would make the robber on an ssri or other drugs more likely to commit that murder during a robbery than the untreated. So you should still see some increase

?

 

[hog88]

Not sure you’ll find it because of the big pharma backlash. It’s been stated many of those who’ve committed mass shootings have been on SSRI (Zoloft or Prozac). Those prescribing and those manufacturing at high rates don’t want to be attached to killings and brain altering chemicals.

Eric Harris going as far back to Columbine was on Luvox

I can see this.

 

[Vol8188]

This is interesting. Might be a beginning to why most of these mass shooting events are committed by middle class white people.



Antidepressant Use among Blacks and Whites in the United States

Most of what I have seen has the number's proportional in terms of mass shootings. I've not personally seen anything indicating a disproportional white rate, which I think your hypothesis would need.

 

[Vol8188]

?

Maybe I don't understand what you're saying. But the claim I've seen before from people with your perspective is that these drugs increase disassociation and lead people to feel disconnected from their actions, thus leading to things like mass murder. Is that not your basic idea?

 

[hog88]

Based on this thread and countless others - the gun grabbers aren't crying about having to compromise. To a degree they're open to working on a solution, whatever it may entail. It's the 2A guys who aren't "willing to give an inch."

Stomping your feet because someone is suggesting a solution to senseless mass shootings may involve compromise, whatever that might be - speaks volumes about you.

Their solution is always bans and more regulations on law abiding citizens. Neither deserve consideration let alone compromise.

You are absolutely correct, I'm not willing to give even an inch when bans or more restrictions are part of the conversation. I won't consider compromise when it includes punishing or infringing on innocent people. Plus the data proves their "solutions" would not work, so again why even offer to compromise on unworkable "solutions"?

 

[whodeycin85]

Source?

Ktiwnvol posted it in this thread originally pointing out the same as you.
According to this
Between 1982 and October 2023, 79 out of the 148 mass shootings in the United States were carried out by White shooters. 53% vs 47% for minorites... 38% if you take out the unclear category (which is mixed)

Mass shootings by shooter’s race in the U.S. 2023 | Statista

Between 1982 and December 2023, 80 out of the 149 mass shootings in the United States were carried out by White shooters.

www.statista.com