Mass shootings in Maine

#727
#727
kiddiedoc said:
Sorry to get in the middle of this, but the law in Maine is actually better than in most states. All provisions were there to prevent this tragedy.

The problem occurred when the government failed at its job. (Surprise, surprise)
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Septic doesn't want to hear that very point.

a red flag law would have been equally as ineffective if the government doesn't enforce it.

I don't know why we would expect the government to be able to effectively enforce more, and more stringent, measures; when they can't enforce the ones already in place to protect us.

what happens when the red flag law doesn't work?
 
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#730
#730
LouderVol said:
Septic doesn't want to hear that very point.

a red flag law would have been equally as ineffective if the government doesn't enforce it.

I don't know why we would expect the government to be able to effectively enforce more, and more stringent, measures; when they can't enforce the ones already in place to protect us.

what happens when the red flag law doesn't work?
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The end result for me is that trusting the govt to protect us from crazy people is not workable.

Robert Card was verbal about his craziness and had apparently changed pretty radically in the things he said and terribly in the things he did.

From all reports this man had been around a lot of weapons for many years and never had an issue until very recently. Only recently had his family raised issues of: he's changed, he's not right, he might be dangerous.

Lots of shooters aren't that vocal. They may have social media rants or the occasional verbal meltdown, but many shooters come "out of the blue" and THEN you find their private crazy writings.

Lots of mass shooters are really quiet about their craziness, loners, "he kept to himself and wasn't really friendly," etc. That's not someone any law stops.

I am curious, and have not seen specifics address it, whether Card's family took weapons or tried to take weapons from him at any point. I have requested weapons from family members (with varying success and thankfully no incidents) when I thought they might be too unstable to be safe with them. That's because I love them and I love the rest of my family, not because I think "there ought to be a law."

And, for me, there is the crux of most liberal arguments: Government should be like family to people and give them things and mold their behavior like family.

I disagree. On every level. That's nowhere near the letter nor spirit of our Constitution.
 
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#732
#732
LouderVol said:
Septic doesn't want to hear that very point.

a red flag law would have been equally as ineffective if the government doesn't enforce it.

I don't know why we would expect the government to be able to effectively enforce more, and more stringent, measures; when they can't enforce the ones already in place to protect us.

what happens when the red flag law doesn't work?
Click to expand...
Super Duper Red Flag laws
 
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#734
#734
LouderVol said:
Septic doesn't want to hear that very point.

a red flag law would have been equally as ineffective if the government doesn't enforce it.

I don't know why we would expect the government to be able to effectively enforce more, and more stringent, measures; when they can't enforce the ones already in place to protect us.

what happens when the red flag law doesn't work?
Click to expand...

Sh*t laws that are unenforced are worthless.

What point am I missing, specifically?

Are you going to try and paint me as anti-gun like those other two clowns who only seem to be lashing out at fabricated arguments?
 
#735
#735
hog88 said:
No, that isn't a fact since the authorities didn't use the tools the law provided for it to work. A more correct statement would be that ME LEO is sh!t for not using the tools they were given to stop him.
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Whatever you want to label it is fine, the law didn't work - it's s h*t law.

Source: 18 dead people.
 
#736
#736
hog88 said:
Oh look septic is frazzeled, next it he'll be throwing out whataboutisms.
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Frazzled? LOL

You're takes are a mile wide and an inch deep.

Maybe you could trot out that speeding example again, it was super convincing.
 
#737
#737
Septic said:
Whatever you want to label it is fine, the law didn't work - it's s h*t law.

Source: 18 dead people.
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I think the argument is judging a law (any law) by implementation isn't a particularly useful approach. For instance let's say you personally write a law. (any law about anything, doesn't matter, just one you wholeheartedly support) If it's poorly enforced (or even at all) did you write a ***t law? Where does the onus lie?
 
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#738
#738
Septic said:
Whatever you want to label it is fine, the law didn't work - it's s h*t law.

Source: 18 dead people.
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How do you know the shyt if it wasn't enforced? Wouldn't that make the people who should be enforcing the law shyt? This the same argument is it the law (ie gun) or the enforcer of the law (shooter).
 
#739
#739
kiddiedoc said:
Sorry to get in the middle of this, but the law in Maine is actually better than in most states. All provisions were there to prevent this tragedy.

The problem occurred when the government failed at its job. (Surprise, surprise)
Click to expand...

Most states don't have any laws as far as I can tell, only 21 have red flag laws.
 
#740
#740
Septic said:
Whatever you want to label it is fine, the law didn't work - it's s h*t law.

Source: 18 dead people.
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Then ME should repeal it. Hell for that matter by your standards all gun laws are sh!t laws so you should support repealing all of them.
 
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#741
#741
whodeycin85 said:
How do you know the shyt if it wasn't enforced? Wouldn't that make the people who should be enforcing the law shyt? This the same argument is it the law (ie gun) or the enforcer of the law (shooter).
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If the mechanism to enforce the law is so cumbersome that it makes the enforcement impractical - then it's a bad law.

Looking good on paper isn't the goal.
 
#743
#743
hog88 said:
Then ME should repeal it. Hell for that matter by your standards all gun laws are sh!t laws so you should support repealing all of them.
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Agreed.

No law is better than the illusion of protection from a law that could work but won't.

Security theater.
 
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#746
#746
hog88 said:
Finally something we can agree on.
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It's been my position from the beginning, it's a sh*t law.

Next time you could pay attention to what I'm saying versus trying to circle the wagons and assume you're being attacked.
 
#747
#747
Septic said:
If the mechanism to enforce the law is so cumbersome that it makes the enforcement impractical - then it's a bad law.

Looking good on paper isn't the goal.
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Fair enough..do you believe the 2 weeks he was in a mental institution to be.enough time for a judge to make a ruling based on his evaluation there?
 
#748
#748
whodeycin85 said:
Fair enough..do you believe the 2 weeks he was in a mental institution to be.enough time for a judge to make a ruling based on his evaluation there?
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I'm not a doctor, I have no idea what it takes to evaluate if someone who says they're going to kill people will actually kill people.

But stating you're going to do it ought to be a red line to where you have your gunz removed until such determination could be made.
 
#750
#750
hog88 said:
LOL

Dude, are you vying to take Luthers place as the biggest liar on VN?
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Maybe you ought to work on your reading comprehension.

Septic said:
Maines "yellow flag" law was dog sh*t. Even had it worked as advertised, there was no mechanism to remove the murderers' firearms without a medical diagnosis (not required by a red flag law state) and then only after a judges order.

The "law" created the illusion of doing something about 'gun violence' without actually doing anything at all.
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I accept your apology.
 
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