Mass shootings in Maine

[hog88]

Maybe you ought to work on your reading comprehension.



I accept your apology.

You think that proves you're not FOS?

 

[GroverCleveland]

LOL, you really ought to look into what libertarians stand for before jump on board and denigrating them. Based on your signaled virtue about less government and more individual rights, you sound like you could be the poster child.

Are you suggesting your right to property outweighs someone else's right to life?

If they're trying to take it, they have put that option on the table.

I look at as they are trying to take a part of my life. Let's say Crook A steals or is engaged in stealing from folks as a career. Over time, their thefts may amount to stealing the equivalent of a lifetime's work although it was done with a slice here with a car and slice there with tools/etc. They eventually will have stolen a lifetime. If they are killed in the processes of committing theft, I've little sympathy. Not to even mention the fact they may very well have a higher probability of actually taking someone's life as a result of their proclivity.

 

[Septic]

You think that proves you're not FOS?

It directly refutes your stated reasoning, so yeah.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Sh*t laws that are unenforced are worthless.

What point am I missing, specifically?

Are you going to try and paint me as anti-gun like those other two clowns who only seem to be lashing out at fabricated arguments?

Dude, you said you didn't want more gun laws and then said you wanted red flag laws.

 

[hog88]

Dude, you said you didn't want more gun laws and then said you wanted red flag laws.

He also posted this:

Based on this thread and countless others - the gun grabbers aren't crying about having to compromise. To a degree they're open to working on a solution, whatever it may entail. It's the 2A guys who aren't "willing to give an inch."

Stomping your feet because someone is suggesting a solution to senseless mass shootings may involve compromise, whatever that might be - speaks volumes about you.

Then turns around today and says all gun laws should be repealed.

 

[Septic]

Dude, you said you didn't want more gun laws and then said you wanted red flag laws.

You should be able to easily cite your source of me stating that then.

I'll wait here. Dude.

 

[Septic]

He also posted this:



Then turns around today and says all gun laws should be repealed.

I did?

You nerds are tilting at windmills. Ginning up arguments and positions I've not taken.

I guess I should have expected as much from you two.

 

[GroverCleveland]

Strawman.

Come on, Septic. Calling it a strawman doesn't mean it is. Your proposition is the Yellow Flag law is bad because didn't prevent murder. So a reasonable question is murder is already against the law so why didn't the anti-murder law stop it?

What "law" we do not have would stop this without question, guaranteed.

Will say reading some of the back forth, you guys are, in places, talking past one another.

 

[whodeycin85]

I'm not a doctor, I have no idea what it takes to evaluate if someone who says they're going to kill people will actually kill people.

But stating you're going to do it ought to be a red line to where you have your gunz removed until such determination could be made.

Do you think the 2 weeks was adequate time for a judge to decide?

 

[Septic]

Come on, Septic. Calling it a strawman doesn't mean it is. Your proposition is the Yellow Flag law is bad because didn't prevent murder. So a reasonable question is murder is already against the law so why didn't the anti-murder law stop it?

What "law" we do not have would stop this without question, guaranteed.

Will say reading some of the back forth, you guys are, in places, talking past one another.

No it's a strawman because his argument gives the illusion that it's the same when it's not. We're not discussing the prosecution, illegality of homicide.

I think the yellow flag law is sh*t because it's overly burdensome to enforce.

I'm not talking past them - they are desperately trying to spin my words into me believing that more laws would help and that I'm anti-gun. As I stated, the entirety of my argument is that the yellow flag law is sh*t.

I'm just having fun watching them twist themselves into knots trying to pin an argument they've created on me.

 

[Septic]

Do you think the 2 weeks was adequate time for a judge to decide?

Who knows, I'm not the judge. Impossible to tell what bueocracy sh*t show this guys case wallowed through to get where it was going. Clearly a more streamlined process is necessary for the law to work as it was intended.

 

[whodeycin85]

Who knows, I'm not the judge. Impossible to tell what bueocracy sh*t show this guys case wallowed through to get where it was going. Clearly a more streamlined process is necessary for the law to work as it was intended.

What would you suggest? Seems like every law is shyt if goes unenforced regardless of how streamlined it is.

 

[Septic]

What would you suggest? Seems like every law is shyt if goes unenforced regardless of how streamlined it is.

Only thing I can offer up is that if someone makes a verifiable threat to murder people, his or her guns ought to be removed until such time that he or she is deemed not a threat to do so.

It's certainly not a perfect solution but falls squarely into the category of common sense.

 

[whodeycin85]

Only thing I can offer up is that if someone makes a verifiable threat to murder people, his or her guns ought to be removed until such time that he or she is deemed not a threat to do so.

It's certainly not a perfect solution but falls squarely into the category of common sense.

Interesting, how would it be verifiable?

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Only thing I can offer up is that if someone makes a verifiable threat to murder people, his or her guns ought to be removed until such time that he or she is deemed not a threat to do so.

It's certainly not a perfect solution but falls squarely into the category of common sense.

That only removes one, granted usually the easiest, method of commiting mass murder.

A car works and has. A knife works and has. Poison works and has. Etc, etc.

The common sense plan is to fully evaluate the person and their threat to others and themselves, as the two often go hand in hand. Taking the guns only is like putting a "toddler latch" on one cabinet in the kitchen and thinking they won't try the other cabinets.

 

[DynaLo]

It’s really difficult to take seriously any poll of people who don’t know we already have a Federal background check system in place and that by the definition, not just because it’s scary looking, assault weapons are already essentially banned.

Move the legal age of military enrollment up to 21 if the 18, 19 & 20 year olds are considered to young to own any civilian firearms, since the military trains them with the actual real assault weapons starting at 18.

Enforcing existing laws effectively would require that government entities, starting at local levels, do their jobs.

An armed society is a polite society, or at the very least will have a better overall survival rate than an unarmed society.

 

[InVOLuntary]

You should be able to easily cite your source of me stating that then.

I'll wait here. Dude.

Maybe. Probably. A red flag law almost certainly would have, if enforced.

I didn't say we needed more.

Why do you keep foisting that position on me? I've already stated my doubt that more laws would be the answer to the problem.

Clearly the yellow flag laws are sh*t, you know - since 18 people are dead. Which was the entirety of my initial point, that you saw somehow as threatening.

Sure sounds like you are justifying a red flag law here.

You've never said why the yellow flag law was sh!t other than saying people died. Is 2 weeks in a mental health facility not long enough to go before a judge and make your case for denying him guns?

 

[Septic]

That only removes one, granted usually the easiest, method of commiting mass murder.

A car works and has. A knife works and has. Poison works and has. Etc, etc.

The common sense plan is to fully evaluate the person and their threat to others and themselves, as the two often go hand in hand. Taking the guns only is like putting a "toddler latch" on one cabinet in the kitchen and thinking they won't try the other cabinets.

I guess if there are multiple holes in the dam, it would behoove one to plug the biggest hole first.

 

[Septic]

Sure sounds like you are justifying a red flag law here.

You've never said why the yellow flag law was sh!t other than saying people died. Is 2 weeks in a mental health facility not long enough to go before a judge and make your case for denying him guns?

Maybe, I'm not against red flag laws any more than I'm for them. It's probable that the Maine shooter's victims may have been better served by a scenario that had less bureaucracy baked in. Maybe not. We'll never know. If the red flag law is defined as taking the guns away from someone who made an overt threat to commit mass murder, then sign me up.

I stated multiple time on why the yellow flag is sh*t, and I've alluded it to it again in this post. I've also addressed the "2 weeks" question.

As much as you want to try and make me the boogy man posterchild of being anti-gun and wanting more gun laws, I'm not the one. If my imagined position is inconvenient or rubbing against the grain of the circled wagons of the NRA agenda - sorry.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I guess if there are multiple holes in the dam, it would behoove one to plug the biggest hole first.

You're looking at the device as the problem when the problem is the person using the gun, car, knife, etc to kill.

If you've dealt with unstable humans, commonly exampled by toddlers, you'll note that if you put the spoon they are throwing out of their reach, they'll grab the fork. Move the fork and they'll pick up the plate. Scoot the child back a little from the utensils and the food and try to teach them that their behavior won't be tolerated and their access will be cut off and you might have a chance to have peace at the dinner table.

I'm not a big fan of government discipline being the first choice nor in rights being taken away by government which is why I've asked about the ACTUAL role the family played in trying to "restrain" Robert Card and his access to weapons.

That's not a perfect solution either, of course, but the responsibility of the family to protect itself and its members should be exhausted or impossible before you call the government to "take care of this for us."

I fundamentally reject that a government that barely knows the person will have more interest than loved ones in keeping the person from turning into a monster.

 

[kiddiedoc]

Are you capable of typing a coherent, specific explanation for what type of laws you are in favor of?

 

[Septic]

You're looking at the device as the problem when the problem is the person using the gun, car, knife, etc to kill.

If you've dealt with unstable humans, commonly exampled by toddlers, you'll note that if you put the spoon they are throwing out of their reach, they'll grab the fork. Move the fork and they'll pick up the plate. Scoot the child back a little from the utensils and the food and try to teach them that their behavior won't be tolerated and their access will be cut off and you might have a chance to have peace at the dinner table.

I'm not a big fan of government discipline being the first choice nor in rights being taken away by government which is why I've asked about the ACTUAL role the family played in trying to "restrain" Robert Card and his access to weapons.

That's not a perfect solution either, of course, but the responsibility of the family to protect itself and its members should be exhausted or impossible before you call the government to "take care of this for us."

I fundamentally reject that a government that barely knows the person will have more interest than loved ones in keeping the person from turning into a monster.

I'm not looking at the guns as the problem, I've only suggested that crazy people with guns are the problem.

Restrictive gun laws generally only affect the law abiding.

Where did you deduce my issue is solely with guns?

 

[jp1]

Are you capable of typing a coherent, specific explanation for what type of laws you are in favor of?

I'm likely wrong about a lot of things, but this one I am 100% sure of. The answer to your question is a resounding NO.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I'm not looking at the guns as the problem, I've only suggested that crazy people with guns are the problem.

Restrictive gun laws generally only affect the law abiding.

Where did you deduce my issue is solely with guns?

Determined crazy people with knives or big trucks and crowds are also a problem.

The real problem is sorting out the mildly crazy from the determined and crazy. I don't think it's doable.

Many mass killers have never been in the legal system until they kill. Most have touched the mental health system......"take this and I'll see you in 2 weeks to talk again."

I'm less likely to seek mental health help if I run the risk of losing some of my freedom because I mention how badly depressed I am, so it's a difficult and I think untenable issue, similar sadly to suicide prevention.

 

[Septic]

Determined crazy people with knives or big trucks and crowds are also a problem.

The real problem is sorting out the mildly crazy from the determined and crazy. I don't think it's doable.

Many mass killers have never been in the legal system until they kill. Most have touched the mental health system......"take this and I'll see you in 2 weeks to talk again."

I'm less likely to seek mental health help if I run the risk of losing some of my freedom because I mention how badly depressed I am, so it's a difficult and I think untenable issue, similar sadly to suicide prevention.

That's lazy. Crazy people aren't running people over in nightclubs, schools, churches, supermarkets and bowling alleys.

I get it, people can be run over. It seems like viable argument until the facts bear out that firearms, not Chevys are responsible for mass shootings.

When mass casualtys due to maniacle hit and run killers become more prevelant I'll concede your point.