Mass shootings in Maine

[hog88]

That's lazy. Crazy people aren't running people over in nightclubs, schools, churches, supermarkets and bowling alleys.

I get it, people can be run over. It seems like viable argument until the facts bear out that firearms, not Chevys are responsible for mass shootings.

When mass casualtys due to maniacle hit and run killers become more prevelant I'll concede your point.

Umm, no. People are responsible for mass shootings.

The fact is inanimate objects can’t be responsible for their use.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Maybe, I'm not against red flag laws any more than I'm for them. It's probable that the Maine shooter's victims may have been better served by a scenario that had less bureaucracy baked in. Maybe not. We'll never know. If the red flag law is defined as taking the guns away from someone who made an overt threat to commit mass murder, then sign me up.

I stated multiple time on why the yellow flag is sh*t, and I've alluded it to it again in this post. I've also addressed the "2 weeks" question.

As much as you want to try and make me the boogy man posterchild of being anti-gun and wanting more gun laws, I'm not the one. If my imagined position is inconvenient or rubbing against the grain of the circled wagons of the NRA agenda - sorry.

You just posted a bunch of words to say I think the government should be able to take my guns and then decide whether I should have them. Unfortunately for you we live in a country that has a little thing called due process. Should we allow the government to decide other rights such as freedom of speech?

You complain about the yellow flag law when if it had been used this would have never happened. Again, I ask you, was two weeks confined to a mental hospital not adequate for government to decide if the man should lose his 2nd amendment rights? How long would you hold him to make that determination?

 

[clarksvol00]

I'm here to emotionally b!tch about people who are always emotionally b!tching while emotionally b!tch!ing that people are emotionally b!tch!ng!

 

[Orangeburst]

Umm, no. People are responsible for mass shootings.

The fact is inanimate objects can’t be responsible for their use.

Dang I come back and you are still at it with the non troll

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

That's lazy. Crazy people aren't running people over in nightclubs, schools, churches, supermarkets and bowling alleys.

I get it, people can be run over. It seems like viable argument until the facts bear out that firearms, not Chevys are responsible for mass shootings.

When mass casualtys due to maniacle hit and run killers become more prevelant I'll concede your point.

As established, many of these crazy people with guns have never touched the legal system before they kill. That's not a method for IDing the potential mass killers, obviously.

Most people who end up being mass shooters, like Robert Card, aren't sick enough if they've touched the mental health system to be kept involuntarily.

Given that, at least in TN, even if you develop a "red flag" law to take their guns because they're dangerous, they can still easily buy another one from a private seller. And we're back to them being dangerous again.

So should we make laws for mandatory background checks for private gun sales? But....but.....you don't want more gun laws, right?

Should we lower the bar quite a bit to allow more involuntary commitments?

Nothing works, as I said, unless you make Americans less free and give the government more power over gun sales by and for everyone, not just the crazies.

 

[Septic]

Umm, no. People are responsible for mass shootings.

The fact is inanimate objects can’t be responsible for their use.

Derp

 

[kiddiedoc]

I'm here to emotionally b!tch about people who are always emotionally b!tching while emotionally b!tch!ing that people are emotionally b!tch!ng!

You succeeded.

Would you like to answer the fundamental question of the thread?

Tons of emotional bitching without one single coherent response. And y'all simpletons wonder why we can't ever have a reasonable conversation on the topic.

 

[hog88]

Dang I come back and you are still at it with the non troll

It’s a sickness…

 

[clarksvol00]

You succeeded.

Would you like to answer the fundamental question of the thread?

Tons of emotional bitching without one single coherent response. And y'all simpletons wonder why we can't ever have a reasonable conversation on the topic.

No. And I'm not sure why you called me a simpleton. I haven't expressed an opinion on the gun control/rights stuff other than say something that might offend one of your brothers in arms who isn't self aware enough to realize he's an emotional b!tch. But keep trying simplemod.

 

[Vol8188]

You two bozo's seem to be the only ones doing all the complaining - all I said was that the yellow flag law was sh*t.

My source for that claim is that Robert Card killed 18 innocent people under a "yellow flag."

Looks like that's the "bitching" dig is about all you can muster since I'm not anti-gun and think more gun laws won't work.

A little intellectual honesty in attacking me would do wonders for you both. I'm not the enemy just because I ask inconvenient questions.

What do I know, you guys circle the wagons, lash out and attack strawmen - it makes you looks super smart.

So your source is “someone was able to kill others”, yet people will always be able to kill other people regardless of the law.

Are you admitting that you’ll never be satisfied and will continually want more and more laws in the name of safety? “Ban guns, knives, hammers, sharp things, etc”

 

[Vol8188]

That's lazy. Crazy people aren't running people over in nightclubs, schools, churches, supermarkets and bowling alleys.

I get it, people can be run over. It seems like viable argument until the facts bear out that firearms, not Chevys are responsible for mass shootings.

When mass casualtys due to maniacle hit and run killers become more prevelant I'll concede your point.

But you have no interest in the fact that black homicide rates are roughly ten times the white rate and are not interested in discussing any solutions for that? Just want to be clear.

Mass murders which kill far, far less people we have to stop. Black homicide which primarily affects black people and represents the majority of all homicides, zero interest?

The left and the media constantly highlight mass shootings. Meanwhile the majority of all homicide victims are black. Nope, can’t discuss that.

 

[LouderVol]

Sh*t laws that are unenforced are worthless.

What point am I missing, specifically?

Are you going to try and paint me as anti-gun like those other two clowns who only seem to be lashing out at fabricated arguments?

so you agree the red flag law that you want is also a sh*t law then? because that's the point you are missing.

its not the law(s) that are the inherent issue here. it is the enforcement of them that matters.

and you are doing a pretty good job painting yourself as anti-2A everytime you argue FOR a red flag law. Its an anti-2A cliche that fits you perfectly, "I support guns, butttt...."

even my equality of rights stance gets me labeled anti-2A in the gun thread every once and a while. and red flag laws are WAY left of that.

 

[LouderVol]

If the mechanism to enforce the law is so cumbersome that it makes the enforcement impractical - then it's a bad law.

Looking good on paper isn't the goal.

name any other right that the government can just take away from people?

your "cumbersome" is actually called "due process". Which is why people keep saying the 2A is the lock to all the other amendments. once you get rid of it, all the other ones are open to be taken away. Red flag laws conflict directly with at least 3 amendments directly, and at least one other indirectly/generally. 2A, 4A, 5A, are all directly violated by red flag laws. the 9th is violated in a general sense as it is a general amendment.

 

[LouderVol]

No it's a strawman because his argument gives the illusion that it's the same when it's not. We're not discussing the prosecution, illegality of homicide.

I think the yellow flag law is sh*t because it's overly burdensome to enforce.

I'm not talking past them - they are desperately trying to spin my words into me believing that more laws would help and that I'm anti-gun. As I stated, the entirety of my argument is that the yellow flag law is sh*t.

I'm just having fun watching them twist themselves into knots trying to pin an argument they've created on me.

how are they not the same?

what is the point of the yellow flag law except to save lives? I would think the goal behind homicide laws is the same, save lives. both failed, but you are only claiming one is sh*t. why? its a valid question you haven't attempted to answer, you just deflected trying to claim strawman.

why do you think they are different? and don't just say "they are", or "its obvious". give me some actual reason why we should consider them differently here?

 

[LouderVol]

That's lazy. Crazy people aren't running people over in nightclubs, schools, churches, supermarkets and bowling alleys.

I get it, people can be run over. It seems like viable argument until the facts bear out that firearms, not Chevys are responsible for mass shootings.

When mass casualtys due to maniacle hit and run killers become more prevelant I'll concede your point.

Fatality Facts 2022: State by state

A summary of fatality statistics about state by state compiled by IIHS from 2022 Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS) data.

www.iihs.org

42k car deaths.

not sure why it has to be a mass casualty event to count? I guess we aren't worried about a person dying even if it adds up to a very similar total as the "mass casaulty" events.

by that logic then we shouldn't be worried about 45k gun deaths. because the vast vast majority of those gun deaths are single deaths. if its only the mass casualty events that need to be resolved thats what, less than 1k deaths a year we are worried about? and that 1000 assumes 18 deaths per week, at a single mass casualty event, for 52 weeks.

 

[hog88]

Fatality Facts 2022: State by state

A summary of fatality statistics about state by state compiled by IIHS from 2022 Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS) data.

www.iihs.org

42k car deaths.

not sure why it has to be a mass casualty event to count? I guess we aren't worried about a person dying even if it adds up to a very similar total as the "mass casaulty" events.

by that logic then we shouldn't be worried about 45k gun deaths. because the vast vast majority of those gun deaths are single deaths. if its only the mass casualty events that need to be resolved thats what, less than 1k deaths a year we are worried about? and that 1000 assumes 18 deaths per week, at a single mass casualty event, for 52 weeks.

They don't give an shot about mass casualty events unless it fits into their narrative. Do you see a post about the 15 people shot in Chicago last night by a felon with a handgun? Or the 3 people shot in Delaware?

 

[volfanhill]

They don't give an shot about mass casualty events unless it fits into their narrative. Do you see a post about the 15 people shot in Chicago last night by a felon with a handgun? Or the 3 people shot in Delaware?

Surprisingly, I cant find LG’s thread on either of those.

 

[hog88]

Surprisingly, I cant find LG’s thread on either of those.

Strange isn't it?

 

[InVOLuntary]

They don't give an shot about mass casualty events unless it fits into their narrative. Do you see a post about the 15 people shot in Chicago last night by a felon with a handgun? Or the 3 people shot in Delaware?

And whispers about the Delaware shootings and the recent Tampa shootings.

 

[hndog609]

They don't give an shot about mass casualty events unless it fits into their narrative. Do you see a post about the 15 people shot in Chicago last night by a felon with a handgun? Or the 3 people shot in Delaware?

Here are 8 (by the current definition) mass shootings in last couple days

Tampa Fl probable gang related altercation after a Halloween party
Indianapolis IN still light on details but another late night Halloween party with "multiple shooters" sounds...well you know
Atlanta GA very few details but originated when "two groups started fighting"
Chicago IL another Halloween party and previously convicted felon shooter
Calcasieu Parrish LA yep, another fight at a party
Dodge City KS a Latino guy came into a bar and started shooting other latinos...no idea yet of motive
Azusa CA You'll never guess...another Halloween party. Very little info but suspects (plural) gives it that gangish smell
Wilson NC aaaaand a Birthday party

So couple takeaways here. Not one of the above has a story citing and kind of "assault weapon" used with several clearly already asserting handguns. 6 were "party" associated with early hints of being gang related. Suffice to say these are almost entirely incidents that a certain group loves to cite very generically for raw numbers but want no part of addressing in any kind of detail. There's a reason for that.

 

[LouderVol]

Here are 8 (by the current definition) mass shootings in last couple days

Tampa Fl probable gang related altercation after a Halloween party
Indianapolis IN still light on details but another late night Halloween party with "multiple shooters" sounds...well you know
Atlanta GA very few details but originated when "two groups started fighting"
Chicago IL another Halloween party and previously convicted felon shooter
Calcasieu Parrish LA yep, another fight at a party
Dodge City KS a Latino guy came into a bar and started shooting other latinos...no idea yet of motive
Azusa CA You'll never guess...another Halloween party. Very little info but suspects (plural) gives it that gangish smell
Wilson NC aaaaand a Birthday party

So couple takeaways here. Not one of the above has a story citing and kind of "assault weapon" used with several clearly already asserting handguns. 6 were "party" associated with early hints of being gang related. Suffice to say these are almost entirely incidents that a certain group loves to cite very generically for raw numbers but want no part of addressing in any kind of detail. There's a reason for that.

great info. I know one of those shootings was addressed in the Gun Thread, no comments or outrage or sh*t law complaints.
the Delaware shooting is another one that is completely radio silent on that has its own thread, and no comments, outrage, or sh*t law complaints.

the agenda is clear. its certainly not about saving lives.

 

[hog88]

great info. I know one of those shootings was addressed in the Gun Thread, no comments or outrage or sh*t law complaints.
the Delaware shooting is another one that is completely radio silent on that has its own thread, and no comments, outrage, or sh*t law complaints.

the agenda is clear. its certainly not about saving lives.

They're not interested in saving lives, hell they want more lives taken in order to advance their political agenda. BUT they want them to be taken by certain means and a particular type of person.

 

[Septic]

so you agree the red flag law that you want is also a sh*t law then? because that's the point you are missing.

its not the law(s) that are the inherent issue here. it is the enforcement of them that matters.

and you are doing a pretty good job painting yourself as anti-2A everytime you argue FOR a red flag law. Its an anti-2A cliche that fits you perfectly, "I support guns, butttt...."

even my equality of rights stance gets me labeled anti-2A in the gun thread every once and a while. and red flag laws are WAY left of that.

I'm for temporary taking guns from people who make overt threats to murder people with guns. Until such time as they are deemed to no longer be a threat. If that's a red flag law definition, sign me up.

Is that anti gun? Is that a law that will only affect the law abiding?

It's tiring having to repeat myself while you guys conflate and contort my words to mean something different from what I'm saying.

If you can't remain honest in the conversation, I'll gladly remove myself and you all can continue to create phantom arguments to attack.

 

[Septic]

Fatality Facts 2022: State by state

A summary of fatality statistics about state by state compiled by IIHS from 2022 Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS) data.

www.iihs.org

42k car deaths.

not sure why it has to be a mass casualty event to count? I guess we aren't worried about a person dying even if it adds up to a very similar total as the "mass casaulty" events.

by that logic then we shouldn't be worried about 45k gun deaths. because the vast vast majority of those gun deaths are single deaths. if its only the mass casualty events that need to be resolved thats what, less than 1k deaths a year we are worried about? and that 1000 assumes 18 deaths per week, at a single mass casualty event, for 52 weeks.

42k deaths from intentional vehicular homicide?

Why not compare mass shootings to heart disease and whine about how we're not blaming pizza and burgers?

 

[Septic]

name any other right that the government can just take away from people?

your "cumbersome" is actually called "due process". Which is why people keep saying the 2A is the lock to all the other amendments. once you get rid of it, all the other ones are open to be taken away. Red flag laws conflict directly with at least 3 amendments directly, and at least one other indirectly/generally. 2A, 4A, 5A, are all directly violated by red flag laws. the 9th is violated in a general sense as it is a general amendment.

Are you suggesting the breakdown in the "due process" is what is responsible for 18 deaths?