Michael Sam, Missouri DE, Is Gay

[zjcvols]

For the same reason that males and females use different restrooms. If a straight guy is in a room of naked women, it is impossible for most men not to look, much less start fantasizing about them. That's why it's called attraction, because there is something pulling you. Yes, it is awkward knowing that a guy is going to be checking out the other guys in the shower because he is attracted to guys.

1) How do you know this? If it was me, I'd be the opposite because I don't want to invade anyone's privacy, man or woman.

2) How do we know Michael Sam is checking out the other guys? You can turn it off and respect other people's privacy. And if he was, as long as he wasn't leering or touching, how is it awkward if you don't know he's checking you out? How does that hurt you?

 

[AirVol]

For the same reason that males and females use different restrooms. If a straight guy is in a room of naked women, it is impossible for most men not to look, much less start fantasizing about them. That's why it's called attraction, because there is something pulling you. Yes, it is awkward knowing that a guy is going to be checking out the other guys in the shower because he is attracted to guys.

Went to a club in Bucharest, Romania and the restrooms were unisex. Restrooms looked like a men's room, with stalls and urinals, but much bigger with partitions.

 

[goldvol]

It's possible to check someone out without leering at them. As long as someone isn't gazing at me while I'm soaping up, I'm not going to be uncomfortable. If someone was leering at me it's going to bother me whether they are male or female.

right, you may not be uncomfortable. that doesn't mean that everyone feels like you do. there are plenty of women that don't mind being naked in a crowd. there are other women who would never get undressed around a guy other than their husband. that doesn't mean that the women are at fault because they feel awkward around men.

 

[bamawriter]

ok, i assumed that transgender meant you are in the middle of changing gender. as i stated, it is only based on the student's own word that he identifies as the opposite sex, and then is allowed to use those facilities.

Like I said, it is open to abuse, and will be receiving attention beyond this one judge's ruling. The ruling also does not require that a member of one sex has to be allowed to shower at the same time and along with members of the opposite sex.

 

[goldvol]

1) How do you know this? If it was me, I'd be the opposite because I don't want to invade anyone's privacy, man or woman.

Because #1 I'm a man. #2 I know other men #3 there is a library feel of books on this subject.

2) How do we know Michael Sam is checking out the other guys? You can turn it off and respect other people's privacy. And if he was, as long as he wasn't leering or touching, how is it awkward if you don't know he's checking you out? How does that hurt you?

How does it hurt a woman at the YMCA if I jump in the group shower with her?

 

[zjcvols]

How does it hurt a woman at the YMCA if I jump in the group shower with her?

If you don't touch or leer, it doesn't.

 

[goldvol]

Like I said, it is open to abuse, and will be receiving attention beyond this one judge's ruling. The ruling also does not require that a member of one sex has to be allowed to shower at the same time and along with members of the opposite sex.

This isn't a judge's ruling. This is legislation that is signed into law. it does require them to be allowed to play the same sports, and to use whichever facilities that they CLAIM to identify with.

 

[bamawriter]

there are other women who would never get undressed around a guy other than their husband. that doesn't mean that the women are at fault because they feel awkward around men.

Then it should be up to that woman to avoid getting undressed where men are present. And any person who isn't comfortable getting naked around a gay man can change or shower elsewhere, or where swimtrunks.

 

[goldvol]

If you don't touch or leer, it doesn't.

Tell that to her, and the police office who cuffs me, and the judge who fines me, and if she's underage, the sex offender registry that i will be on

 

[bamawriter]

This isn't a judge's ruling. This is legislation that is singed into law. it does require them to be allowed to play the same sports, and to use whichever facilities that they CLAIM to identify with.

Actually, you are crossing up the law with a ruling regarding application of the law. You are correct about the sports issue, which is why I haven't argued against that.

But, the law simply states that a transgendered individual cannot be forced to use the facilities assigned to members of his or her sex. The law was challenged because a transgendered young man was made to use a unisex staff bathroom (which I personally think was a fair application of the law). The judge hearing the case ruled that the young man had to be allowed to use the girls' facilities if he chose. The actual written law did not require that.

 

[bamawriter]

How does it hurt a woman at the YMCA if I jump in the group shower with her?

There is a difference. Besides simple issues of safety, that woman might not want to see your garbage, nor should she have to. Maybe she doesn't want to see another woman's garbage either, but in that case it should be on her to shower elsewhere.

 

[goldvol]

Actually, you are crossing up the law with a ruling regarding application of the law. You are correct about the sports issue, which is why I haven't argued against that.

But, the law simply states that a transgendered individual does cannot be forced to use the facilities assigned to members of his or her sex. The law was challenged because a transgendered young man was made to use a unisex staff bathroom (which I personally think was a fair application of the law). The judge hearing the case ruled that the young man had to be allowed to use the girls' facilities if he chose. The actual written law did not require that.

I am not crossing it up. You appear to be misinformed. Here is an article from when the legislation was passed. California law allows transgender students to pick bathrooms, sports teams they identify with - CBS News

 

[bamawriter]

I am not crossing it up. You appear to be misinformed. Here is an article from when the legislation was passed. California law allows transgender students to pick bathrooms, sports teams they identify with - CBS News

Fine, I don't feel like hashing the finer details. The main point I was trying to emphasize is that the law, nor the recent ruling on it, does not require that a member of one sex be allowed to change or shower in the presence of the opposite sex. It allows for access to certain facilities, not certain company.

 

[omghulkhands]

I dont remember liking them when I was real young either.....what about people that choose to have sex with both men and women?

This is personal, so sorry to some. It is for the sake of discussion.

I remember being between 6-8 year old and watching an R-rated movie. This movie had a particular scence that caused me to become aroused. At the time I had no idea what that "feeling" was that I was having. I remember it very vividly. I just brushed it off at the time. It wasn't until some years later that I was able to identify what actually happened in that moment.

Again, what is important is that at the time I had no idea what was going on, I just knew it was a new feeling that I liked. I wasn't even able to link up why I was having it at the time. This would indicate that it was a natural feeling. I didn't learn to like girls.

 

[NickZ4UT]

How does it hurt a woman at the YMCA if I jump in the group shower with her?

Why is this all about sex? I honestly don't care if I shower with a gay man, maybe you do but to be honest that's on you not him. By the way the focal point seems to be gay men, not gay women, why? Do you think that straight women would be uncomfortable showering with gay women or is it just a guy thing? Furthermore, and I've addressed this several times in this thread, one's sexual orientation does not effect their sexual appetite. What I mean by that is, just because he's gay doesn't mean he's going to be checking out your ass in the shower. Here's the really interesting thing, if co-ed showers were a social norm this wouldn't be an issue and in many places in the world that is the norm. I understand that the prospect of sharing a shower with a gay person makes people uncomfortable, but frankly that's a personal problem. Remember, it wasn't all that long ago that blacks and whites weren't allowed to share much of anything let alone a shower and for similar reasons.

 

[gcbvol]

For the same reason that males and females use different restrooms. If a straight guy is in a room of naked women, it is impossible for most men not to look, much less start fantasizing about them. That's why it's called attraction, because there is something pulling you. Yes, it is awkward knowing that a guy is going to be checking out the other guys in the shower because he is attracted to guys.

You'd probably be very surprised at how gay men are controlled in this regard (not speaking for all). We have an understanding that straight men are not viable partners. We're not uncontrolled lust machines. If the shower was 100% gay men, then it could be different but never a likelihood.

 

[omghulkhands]

You'd probably be very surprised at how gay men are controlled in this regard (not speaking for all). We have an understanding that straight men are not viable partners. We're not uncontrolled lust machines. If the shower was 100% gay men, then it could be different but never a likelihood.

His argument was absurd anyway. I have respect for other humans. It has happened to me on more than one occasion where an attractive woman had to undress in front of me and asked me to turn away or not look. I didn't look. I believe most people would fall into the same category.

 

[Burhead]

You'd probably be very surprised at how gay men are controlled in this regard (not speaking for all). We have an understanding that straight men are not viable partners. We're not uncontrolled lust machines. If the shower was 100% gay men, then it could be different but never a likelihood.

You mean to tell me that all the horror stories about the gay mafia butt sexing everything in sight and turning all the straight dues gay were all lies :crazy:

I feel so much better now thanks. :birgits_giggle:

 

[goldvol]

Why is this all about sex?

I never said it was

I honestly don't care if I shower with a gay man, maybe you do but to be honest that's on you not him. By the way the focal point seems to be gay men, not gay women, why? Do you think that straight women would be uncomfortable showering with gay women or is it just a guy thing? .

Yes I do think that straight women would be more likely to be unconfortable showering with women they know are gay. This is my opinion and may not be accurate, but I'm sure there is evidence on this one way or the other.

Furthermore, and I've addressed this several times in this thread, one's sexual orientation does not effect their sexual appetite. What I mean by that is, just because he's gay doesn't mean he's going to be checking out your ass in the shower.

This is completely false, for me and every guy I have ever talked to, both gay and straight. My sexual orientation and sexual appetite go hand in hand.

Here's the really interesting thing, if co-ed showers were a social norm this wouldn't be an issue and in many places in the world that is the norm. .

There is a good reason that co-ed showers are not the norm.

I understand that the prospect of sharing a shower with a gay person makes people uncomfortable, but frankly that's a personal problem. Remember, it wasn't all that long ago that blacks and whites weren't allowed to share much of anything let alone a shower and for similar reasons.

This isn't about social stigma. This is about how a gay man identifies himself. If I know that a straight woman is going to in a public shower with me, I am going to be self conscious the whole time I am in the shower. That doesn't make it a civil rights issue

 

[goldvol]

You'd probably be very surprised at how gay men are controlled in this regard (not speaking for all). We have an understanding that straight men are not viable partners. We're not uncontrolled lust machines. If the shower was 100% gay men, then it could be different but never a likelihood.

You may not be. As a man, I am an uncontrolled lust machine. Studies on homosexual males show that a large percentage of them admit to having sex with strangers in public places. This is not a lifestyle, but a reckless choice that endangers their health.

Also, many in the gay male community are more open to open relationships, which leads to higher rates of disease transmission. I love gay people, and want to see them live long, healthy happy lives.

 

[bamawriter]

This isn't about social stigma. This is about how a gay man identifies himself. If I know that a straight woman is going to in a public shower with me, I am going to be self conscious the whole time I am in the shower.

If she doesn't so much as look at you, isn't your discomfort your problem?

 

[bamawriter]

You may not be. As a man, I am an uncontrolled lust machine.

This explains a lot. It appears that your stance is based upon your own personal hangups. You aren't able to control your base tendencies, so you assume that no one else can.

That's called "projection".

 

[goldvol]

If she doesn't so much as look at you, isn't your discomfort your problem?

Why don't you ask the daughters in California who will be showering with boys.

 

[volbeast33]

If the gay man isn't oggling another guy's garbage, or touching him, or doing anything other than showering, then what exactly does anyone have to feel awkward about?

If someone simply feels awkward being naked around a gay guy who is doing nothing wrong, shouldn't it be on that person to choose to shower elsewhere? Or simply wait til the gay guy is done?

That would settle the gay debate bc if u dropped me into the lockerroom full of naked wnba girls.....I would have a raging hard on.....im assuming it would be the same lol

 

[omghulkhands]

Why don't you ask the daughters in California who will be showering with boys.

Boys that aren't attracted to girls. Kind of seems to be the point everyone is missing. Bamawriter did say that it could possibly be manipulated, but there are systems in place to prevent that.