Michigan Investigated for Sign Stealing

#352
#352
Here’s the other thing that truly bothers me as a fan and I find incredulous.

This is a NCAA investigation. This is not a Big Ten investigation. The Big Ten stated from the beginning…this was an NCAA investigation. The NCAA investigation has not completed or released its findings. Yet the Big Ten wants to go ahead and lay a punishment?? Because the schools that are all behind them in the standings is mad? That’s ridiculous
 
#353
#353
Dadof2Vols said:
I personally would think that either JH or the OC or DC would have asked stallion at some point over 3 years how he was so good. I would have. I just as HC would not have understood how from first play of game Stallion was so good. but then again ignorance is bliss for those who know not to ask because they wouldn’t like the answer.

Again, Stallion didn’t have the money to do this own his own.
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zjcvols said:
Simple: “We did buy tickets for Stalions to go to games to do in person scouting. However we had no knowledge he was recording sidelines”. There’s that plausible deniability. You acknowledge a little wrong doing, take the small hit and then let the big stuff go away.
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So if he is so good, perhaps that is a great reason NOT to ask; giving Michigan HC / OC / DC perceived plausible deniability, as @zjcvols stated. As I alluded to in another post, if the hierarchy at B1G tries to drop a hammer on Michigan / Harbaugh, I'll tell you right now who the big winners will be...... The lawyers!
 
#357
#357
zjcvols said:
Here’s the other thing that truly bothers me as a fan and I find incredulous.

This is a NCAA investigation. This is not a Big Ten investigation. The Big Ten stated from the beginning…this was an NCAA investigation. The NCAA investigation has not completed or released its findings. Yet the Big Ten wants to go ahead and lay a punishment?? Because the schools that are all behind them in the standings is mad? That’s ridiculous
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Maybe they think they need to get the "children" under control. UM is now trashing the other schools in the conference. The arrogance of UM is what is ridiculous to me. They think they are above reproach and don't have to follow rules. UM is not saying, we are not guilty. they are saying other schools are doing it to.

While it is an NCCA investigation - the integrity damage now is greater than UM because UM is making it that.

What would be in the best interest of college football is for UM to lose a couple of games. That removes this from the spot light and it will eventually taint the CFP.
 
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#358
#358
zjcvols said:
Here’s the other thing that truly bothers me as a MICHIGAN fan and I find incredulous.

This is a NCAA investigation. This is not a Big Ten investigation. The Big Ten stated from the beginning…this was an NCAA investigation. The NCAA investigation has not completed or released its findings. Yet the Big Ten wants to go ahead and lay a punishment?? Because the schools that are all behind them in the standings is mad? That’s ridiculous
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Fixed for you
 
#359
#359
volfan102455 said:
Maybe they think they need to get the "children" under control. UM is now trashing the other schools in the conference. The arrogance of UM is what is ridiculous to me. They think they are above reproach and don't have to follow rules. UM is not saying, we are not guilty. they are saying other schools are doing it to.

While it is an NCCA investigation - the integrity damage now is greater than UM because UM is making it that.

What would be in the best interest of college football is for UM to lose a couple of games. That removes this from the spot light and it will eventually taint the CFP.
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What is the integrity damage if it is found that Michigan gave all of these illegal gained signs to South Carolina to make sure that Clemson/UT did not make the playoffs and Michigan assured themselves of making it?

To me that integrity damage is as big as gambling, it is rigging the sports outcomes.
 
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#360
#360
zjcvols said:
Simple: “We did buy tickets for Stalions to go to games to do in person scouting. However we had no knowledge he was recording sidelines”. There’s that plausible deniability. You acknowledge a little wrong doing, take the small hit and then let the big stuff go away.
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It is stunning what you are endorsing for pages on end. And it's not smart, it's simply morally reprehensible.

Everybody knows Michigan will skate, bruh. They got away with damaging the integrity of the playoffs last year, and they'll get away with it again this year. It in no way hinges on cleverness or tactics. It's simply the fact that Michigan corruptly is deemed to be a program allowed to cheat with impunity. Full stop.

I am curious whether you expended this kind of constant effort and sophistry to defend our team when under investigation. Because changing the outcomes of a multitude of games, altering the playoff composition, and endeavoring (yet failing) to cheat in the playoffs last year is infinitely worse than $50k in a fried chicken bag or whatever it was. Consider. You know the practice field parking lot at Bama has been filled from stem to stern for over a decade with illegally provided Dodge Chargers (to name one small example), don't you? The high-end models are over $50k a piece.

And everyone always already knew that that NCAA was going to drag its feet for its cheat-with-impunity pet Michigan until the story changes to "well it's not fair to punish them now for things that happened 5 or 6 years ago. The Kansas model.
 
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#361
#361
Orange. said:
It is stunning what you are endorsing for pages on end. And it's not smart, it's simply morally reprehensible.

Everybody knows Michigan will skate, bruh. They got away with damaging the integrity of the playoffs last year, and they'll get away with it again this year. It in no way hinges on cleverness or tactics. It's simply the fact that Michigan corruptly is deemed to be a program allowed to cheat with impunity. Full stop.

I am curious whether you expended this kind of constant effort and sophistry to defend our team when under investigation. Because changing the outcomes of a multitude of games, altering the playoff composition, and endeavoring (yet failing) to cheat in the playoffs last year is infinitely worse than $50k in a fried chicken bag or whatever it was. Consider. You know the practice field parking lot at Bama has been filled from stem to stern for over a decade with illegally provided Dodge Chargers (to name one small example), don't you? The high-end models are over $50k a piece.

And everyone always already knew that that NCAA was going to drag its feet for its cheat-with-impunity pet Michigan until the story changes to "well it's not fair to punish them now for things that happened 5 or 6 years ago. The Kansas model.
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Yes I simply scoffed at the NCAA investigation that happened on our end and thought the whole thing was ridiculous. I don’t support the NCAA at all.

Also nobody has proven any of these allegations, including that Michigan was giving signs to teams. If that gets proven, then I’ll gladly change my tune and I’ve stated that if the allegations that have come out then Michigan will be tainted.

My issue is how this entire thing has played out; which I’ve stated multiple times. We have had little evidence to corroborate the plethora of allegations that have came out, with reports flying left and right of basically what has amounted to finger pointing.

For example: If Big Ten schools knew about Michigan’s sign stealing as far back as October 2022, why did nobody report them till three weeks ago?
 
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#363
#363
You seem not to even realize that this entire media dog-and-pony show is for the purpose of suppressing what Harbaugh's corrupt regime did last year. And to replace that true story with a false account and fake urgency that "something needs to be done before this Michigan cheating one day in the future corrupts the playoffs." It's extremely Michigan friendly.

And also to clear the way for the story that the networks are dying to ride to the bank: That a mere three in-game suspension (in other words, not a real coaching suspension including practices and game prep) will have "already punished" Michigan. This is in order to justify Michigan's presence in the playoffs this year.

And if Michigan fails, they can blame it on the suspension.
 
#364
#364
There is proof. The NCAA simply has stalled. And the press has obfuscated and diverted all attention from last year's facts (as a strategy) (because it is too big not to damage the playoff's integrity), while failing to cite the proof intelligibly in order to make the kind of circus that sells.

Multiple coaches have said what happened. We know with certainty that they had this guy and others on sidelines. We know the guy was on the sideline speaking with Coordinators and even with Harbaugh, and even players signaled in illegally stolen intelligence. We know coaches have said that signals were provided to SCar. We know that Beamer had his team in wristbands for the first time in history to translate the stolen signals. We know that coaches alerted TCU that Harbaugh's regime was going to do the same thing to them. But because TCU was forewarned and because they had a month to prepare, TCU changes all of their team's signals before playing Michigan. We know that with those outdated signals in hand, Michigan lost.

We also know that there was some computer crime at Michigan back in February and that it has been covered up by Michigan and the local and national media all year long. Everything has been censored except that Harbaugh's Assistant Offensive Coordinator was the fall guy in that case. And we also know that the university administration runs and supervises the university computer system, so it was not simply a football issue, whatever it was.
 
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#365
#365
Orange. said:
You seem not to even realize that this entire media dog-and-pony show is for the purpose of suppressing what Harbaugh's corrupt regime did last year. And to replace that true story with a false account and fake urgency that "something needs to be done before this Michigan cheating one day in the future corrupts the playoffs." It's extremely Michigan friendly.

And also to clear the way for the story that the networks are dying to ride to the bank: That a mere three in-game suspension (in other words, not a real coaching suspension including practices and game prep) will have "already punished" Michigan. This is in order to justify Michigan's presence in the playoffs this year.

And if Michigan fails, they can blame it on the suspension.
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So you’re insinuating that Michigan…is the one leaking all of this info…about how much they cheated…so they can be punished quicker…
 
#366
#366
Orange. said:
There is proof. The NCAA simply has stalled. And the press has obfuscated and diverted all attention from last year's facts (as a strategy) (because it is too big not to damage the playoff's integrity), while failing to cite the proof intelligibly in order to make the kind of circus that sells.

Multiple coaches have said what happened. We know with certainty that they had this guy and others on sidelines. We know the guy was on the sideline speaking with Coordinators and even with Harbaugh, and even players signaled in illegally stolen intelligence. We know coaches have said that signals were provided to SCar. We know that Beamer had his team in wristbands for the first time in history to translate the stolen signals. We know that coaches alerted TCU that Harbaugh's regime was going to do the same thing to them, but because they were forewarned and because they had a month to prepare that TCU changes all of their teams signals completely before playing Michigan. We know that with thus outdated signals, Michigan lost.

We also know that there was some computer crime at Michigan back in February and that has been covered up by Michigan and the local and national media all year long. Everything has been censored except that Harbaugh's Assistant Offensive Coordinator was the fall guy in that case. And we also know that the university administration runs and supervises the university computer system, so it was not simply a football issue, whatever it was.
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And not one iota of that has come from any official governing body. It’s just X, message boards and journalists without naming a source.
 
#367
#367
I’m glad Greg Sankey didn’t give Tennessee a two year bowl ban before the ncaa investigation concluded
 
#369
#369
Michigan is stupid for doing something so blatant and open that most likely didn’t even give them much of an advantage

The Big Ten teams are stupid for not reporting it when they found out what was going on and instead tried to collaborate to steal Michigan’s signs

The journalists are idiots because none of them are actually doing journalist work, instead of relying on “sources say” reports for clicks

The NCAA is stupid because they suck and nobody trusts them to handle this right

The Big Ten President is stupid because he’s succumbing to a mob mentality and instead of doing his own investigation, is relying on the ncaa investigation which nobody trusts anyways
 
#371
#371
zjcvols said:
Michigan is stupid for doing something so blatant and open that most likely didn’t even give them much of an advantage

The Big Ten teams are stupid for not reporting it when they found out what was going on and instead tried to collaborate to steal Michigan’s signs

The journalists are idiots because none of them are actually doing journalist work, instead of relying on “sources say” reports for clicks

The NCAA is stupid because they suck and nobody trusts them to handle this right

The Big Ten President is stupid because he’s succumbing to a mob mentality and instead of doing his own investigation, is relying on the ncaa investigation which nobody trusts anyways
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While everybody else is stupid, Harbaugh will probably walk away looking like a genius.
 
#372
#372
zjcvols said:
So you’re insinuating that Michigan…is the one leaking all of this info…about how much they cheated…so they can be punished quicker…
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No, reading is essential, bruh. I am claiming, first, that it is a foregone conclusion among people who pay attention that Michigan is a member of the small NCAA and B1G cheat-with-impunity clique, otherwise something would have alread been done. Everyone who pays attention understands the NCAA is deliberately stalling and covering like they did in the case of Kansas basketball. You should be happy about this, apparently, since it means that Michigan will be allowed to accrue great recruiting classes and even win a title (if they can do it) while known to have been cheating on a massive scale with impunity. And one day -- 6 years or so from now -- the NCAA will say with all fake "concern" it can muster: "Well, it's too late to punish these new players. Etc. So having covered for Michigan for so long, we will now order them to forfeit a few meaningless games on paper, but not the title or recruiting classes, with no serious sanctions at all."

Secondly, that the NCAA, CFP, B1G, SEC, the Networks, and the gravy-train media as a whole are spinning the story in an extremely Michigan-friendly manner. The very fact that you can declare with a straight face that there is no proof is evidence of that. Their most urgent task was to suppress completely all of the ramifications of what Michigan did last year. This was to falsely save or repair the severe damage Harbaugh's Michigan did to the credibility of the playoffs last year. They succeeded in flying colors, in part by feeding the public the kind of circus unfocused and slap-happy people love -- in place of the uncomfortable facts that very briefly saw the light of day and needed to be buried asap. All media, the B1G and SEC (Finebaum, as a proxy, for instance) talk whatsoever about last year completely and abruptly ended as soon as the ramification of the 2022 facts reared their head. It was precisely at that same moment that the media began to trumpet the B1G coaches taking initiation. (Btw, do you really believe that not a single on of them alerted the B1G of this in private last year?) (If so, because they are stupid? Or because they feared retaliation, the way SEC teams fear retaliation from Birmingham?) Anyway, that B1G coaches' initiative and all coverage of it hinged on the exact tagline that something needs to be done before the playoffs can be effected. You see, I hope, that that is what the public was sold on (it's what irks you) and that sudden emphasis implicitly denies that the playoffs were already affected last year.

Third, I think this present brouhaha is less threatening to Michigan that you appear to think for another reason. (And I am not convinced that the leagues and networks are unaware of it serving this purpose.) The brouhaha stands in place of the NCAA actually acting in a timely manner. But more importantly, by the back door it introduces a means for Michigan to participate in the playoffs with a cover story (at least, if hardly a true exoneration imo), An immediate suspension would likely be a minor imitation of a real suspension, because it wouldn't likely prohibit Harbaugh from participating is all practices and game preparation. Moreover a supension-lite of that sort opens the way for Michigan to claim (falsely, in my view) that they have already paid the penalty for the signal scandal. So any later initiative to ban Michigan from the playoffs would be "unfair."

Fourth, I have been calling attention to computer scandal or coverup all year long. I am not piling on in continuing to bring it people's minds.
 
#373
#373
I think you are engaging the "story" at a different level than I am. If what I just explained doesn't reach you, I am happy to let the matter stand, our disagreement in tact, but not hostile. None of this "worries" me because from the start I've been certain (or as certain as one can be about a future) that Michigan would get the Kansas basketball treatment.
 
#374
#374
People acting like Michigan has a legit chance to win the natty lol, Georgia or Alabama would smash them and probaly us too. They haven’t played anybody and always choke on the playoff.
 
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