Michigan spied on Vols last year

#326
#326
aRmo said:
As much as i would like to sit here and get mad about "Cheating" especially against that ****hole in Columbia, SC. The truth is we just didnt bring it that night. Yes the offense scored enough to technically win. But we were not prepared to play that night plain and simple. We played with an Edge all season except that game. On all the 4th downs last season the opposing teams knew what play we were about to run, we didnt care, we had the mindset that we were going to get this first down, run you over in the process, and there isnt a damn thing you could do about it. Idk what happened in the locker room that week. But the team that showed in Columbia is NOT the same team that beat LSU, Bama, and Kentucky. Those of you can claim "Its because they had our signals" thats fine thats your opinion, i wont knock you for it. But to me, that night this team was in a funk and you could see it from South Carolina's first drive.
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I don't see how any of that has any bearing on whether SC/Michigan was cheating or not.

Tennessee didn't play great because we had drama with Banks, and that was a factor in the game. That doesn't change the fact that SC would have a major advantage if they were sign stealing and that would effect the outcome of the game. Both things can be true.

It's just like the argument over officiating. Basically we can't complain about an unjust situation unless Tennessee is absolutely perfect and carriers no blame whatsoever.

It's absurd.
 
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#327
#327
unfrozencvmanvol said:
Vegas misses like that every year. Two similar results I can think of off the top of my head, in 2019 we were a 30 point favorite against Georgia State and lost by 8 (scoring a TD inside a minute left to cut it from a 45 point differential to a 38). As it's Florida-Georgia week, I read an article earlier in the week about great upsets in the history of that rivalry. In 1997, Florida was a 21.5 point favorite and got beat by 20 (41.5 point difference), to make matters more confusing we lost to that Florida team by 13 but beat the crap out of Georgia that same year. In dealing with the emotions and focus of 18-22 year olds these results don't always make sense. I also remember either an Iowa or Purdue game against Ohio State when Urban Meyer was at OSU where OSU was upset and the line was off about 50 points. It happens.

Vegas makes money by evening out the amount of bets on each side and always taking the juice. The line settles wherever it needs to in order to even out the money. For Vegas, the public's perception of how good two teams are is more important than the reality. So that is another factor that can lead to really anomalous results. That Florida-Georgia game in 1997 for example had a match up the public's perception was way off on, Jaquez Green was a WR who had been slicing and dicing SEC defenses that year and was getting the GameDay interviews and what not, but what the public didn't know was UGA had a sophomore corner coming into his own that wasn't yet a household name who would be shadowing Green. A kid named Champ Bailey who played about 15 years in the NFL and is now in the HOF. The public's (bettors) perception of how that match up was going to go didn't match the reality that Bailey would man Green up all day.
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Neither of these were greater than 46 point misses, which was OP’s point. They’ve never missed as badly as the UT/SC game.
 
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#329
#329
I find it very credible that Junior would have cheated to beat both Tennessee and Clemson. I know there were other factors, but it has been stated publically that UM shared the stolen information with "opponents of potential playoff opponents".

I mean....if that's not UT and Clemson, who is it???? 🤔
 
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#330
#330
volfan102455 said:
Assuming there is truth to this - what is the penalty? This impacts so many things and I'm sure a lot of folks lost lots of money on those two games SC won.
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Assuming enough evidence is present to prove it, I would assume the penalty would be similar to what the Vols received in terms of vacating wins, hefty fine, and losing schollys. A bowl ban maybe? I don't know. I think that depends on the status of Beamer. We had already fired Pruitt and self imposed scholly limits when the NCAA decision came down. They chose not to punish the players and staff who largely weren't even there when these violations happened. If Beamer doesn't get fired (which he probably would considering this disappointing season), I would expect a pretty lengthy suspension considering it isn't his first violation, along with a bowl ban.

Again, this all assumes it can proved.
 
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#331
#331
volfan102455 said:
The question in my mind right now, is if this is true and Michigan wins out, will the NCAA let them participate in the playoffs with this out there?

It needs to be cleared up quickly. If Michigan has anything to dispute this, they need to put it out there and it can't be the "coach didn't know excuse". That is saying .. yes it is true but forgive us because our head coach didn't know.

I feel for the players - but when I look at the OSU clip, it is like the players knew too.
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If they needed to cheat to get the CFP in the first place, something tells me these next few weeks will take care of their playoff hopes.
 
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#332
#332
BigOrangeTrain said:
Essentially every team in the top 25 get away with cheating on a yearly basis.
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There a different levels of cheating. That's why there are different levels of NCAA violations. This would likely fall as a level 1 violation and since it involved 2 teams, it's likely to be considered as a two separate level 1 violations.

I do not think every team (or close to every team) in the top 25 gets away with level 1 violations every year. Especially now that you have the NIL and you can essentially pay players legally. You can also recruit top current players away from other schools legally under the guise of a NIL collective (essentially what USC did with Addison).
 
#333
#333
JCHateSteve said:
I don't see how any of that has any bearing on whether SC/Michigan was cheating or not.

Tennessee didn't play great because we had drama with Banks, and that was a factor in the game. That doesn't change the fact that SC would have a major advantage if they were sign stealing and that would effect the outcome of the game. Both things can be true.

It's just like the argument over officiating. Basically we can't complain about an unjust situation unless Tennessee is absolutely perfect and carriers no blame whatsoever.

It's absurd.
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I dont blame losses on officiating. It may contribute to momentum alittle bit. SC would not have a major advantage. You guys act like these "Signals" are not on the game film/tape they watch every week. saying they have a Major advantage is a bit of a stretch. We were favored by 21 points going into that game. And if we had showed up with the right mind set, them having signals wouldnt have mattered.
 
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#334
#334
Regardless< I suspect that UT and most other teams will now be mixing up their signals from week to week or even half to half to make sure our opponents don't have an advantage.....of course I might also use the same signals every game in hopes of lulling my opponent into a false sense of security then flip the script on a play or two
 
#335
#335
aRmo said:
I dont blame losses on officiating. It may contribute to momentum alittle bit. SC would not have a major advantage. You guys act like these "Signals" are not on the game film/tape they watch every week. saying they have a Major advantage is a bit of a stretch. We were favored by 21 points going into that game. And if we had showed up with the right mind set, them having signals wouldnt have mattered.
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I will tell you the same thing that I tell baseball fans who say steroids don't help you hit a baseball.

If they didn't help, then why were they doing it? Why take the risk to cheat if there is no added benefit?

Clearly Michigan thought it helped, or they wouldn't have risked a major scandal to do it.
 
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#336
#336
aRmo said:
I dont blame losses on officiating. It may contribute to momentum alittle bit. SC would not have a major advantage. You guys act like these "Signals" are not on the game film/tape they watch every week. saying they have a Major advantage is a bit of a stretch. We were favored by 21 points going into that game. And if we had showed up with the right mind set, them having signals wouldnt have mattered.
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Signals would be on the game film ONLY IF someone was filming the sidelines. There is no reason for that to be happening during the game.
 
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#337
#337
aRmo said:
I dont blame losses on officiating. It may contribute to momentum alittle bit. SC would not have a major advantage. You guys act like these "Signals" are not on the game film/tape they watch every week. saying they have a Major advantage is a bit of a stretch. We were favored by 21 points going into that game. And if we had showed up with the right mind set, them having signals wouldnt have mattered.
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So should Tennessee start cheating like crazy? I mean it shouldn't make any difference to the outcome if the other team does what they should. So why not?
 
#338
#338
Carp said:
I will tell you the same thing that I tell baseball fans who say steroids don't help you hit a baseball.

If they didn't work, then why were they doing it? Why take the risk to cheat if there is no added benefit?

Clearly Michigan thought it worked, or they wouldn't have risked a major scandal to do it.
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This! It is an advantage; agree you have to execute to take advantage of the "advantage". But I don't get the folks that say it doesn't matter.
 
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#340
#340
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#341
#341
JCHateSteve said:
So should Tennessee start cheating like crazy? I mean it shouldn't make any difference to the outcome if the other team does what they should. So why not?
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Well, apparently we did cheat like crazy under Pruitt and it didn't help so your idea has merit.
 
#346
#346
JCHateSteve said:
Irrelevant.

You say it shouldn't matter. So is it ok if Tennessee does it?
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Again, who says we dont already? If you aint cheating, you are falling behind the pack. Cheating is a double edged sword. Just dont get caught with your hand in the cookie jar.
 
#347
#347
aRmo said:
Again, who says we dont already? If you aint cheating, you are falling behind the pack. Cheating is a double edged sword. Just dont get caught with your hand in the cookie jar.
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No one said either way, nor is it relevant to the question.

I asked if you thought it was ok for Tennessee to cheat and should they. It appears you do.
 
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#348
#348
Has anybody asked if they wore wristbands for this years game ? We’re still moving at the same pace or very close .
 
#349
#349
Wireless1 said:
Regardless< I suspect that UT and most other teams will now be mixing up their signals from week to week or even half to half to make sure our opponents don't have an advantage.....of course I might also use the same signals every game in hopes of lulling my opponent into a false sense of security then flip the script on a play or two
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IMO, if they're not already changing signals week-to-week, then they're not doing their jobs.
I know high school coaches that change signals from the first-half to the second to avoid such shenanigans.
 
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#350
#350
Carp said:
Assuming enough evidence is present to prove it, I would assume the penalty would be similar to what the Vols received in terms of vacating wins, hefty fine, and losing schollys. A bowl ban maybe? I don't know. I think that depends on the status of Beamer. We had already fired Pruitt and self imposed scholly limits when the NCAA decision came down. They chose not to punish the players and staff who largely weren't even there when these violations happened. If Beamer doesn't get fired (which he probably would considering this disappointing season), I would expect a pretty lengthy suspension considering it isn't his first violation, along with a bowl ban.

Again, this all assumes it can proved.
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If they want him fired at end of season do they pull a Donde?
 
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