Mormon Proxy Baptisms

#137
#137
God predestined that those who chose his son would be saved. He did not predestine who would make that choice.

If he did, then everything and I mean everything about the bible and religion is totally pointless.
 
#139
#139
RespectTradition said:
God predestined that those who chose his son would be saved. He did not predestine who would make that choice.

If he did, then everything and I mean everything about the bible and religion is totally pointless.
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correct.......Jesus gave his life so that EVERY man could decide to believe or not......if you are saying that God knows who will and who will not chose to follow him, I can agree with that, but the choice is still on us.

John 6:37:40
“All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38 “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 “And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day," (John 6:37-40).
In verse 37, Jesus says, “All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out." It is clear that the Father gives to the Son those who believe and that Jesus says he will not cast them out.

In verse 38 Jesus says, “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me." Jesus tells us he is here to do the will of the Father. What is the will of the Father?

John 6:39-40, “And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day,"
 
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#140
#140
Please be careful with telling unbelievers that they are predestined. The Bible plainly teaches, in the new law, that one still has to accept Christ to be saved.
 
#141
#141
T-TownVol said:
Please be careful with telling unbelievers that they are predestined. The Bible plainly teaches, in the new law, that one still has to accept Christ to be saved.
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I try to be as careful and as gentle as possible. I've never told a person they were predestined to hell.
 
#142
#142
Sin is willful rebellion against God. Originating within the ranks of the angelic hosts, evil sought its way into God’s image-bearers—mankind. After having chosen to disobey God’s command, Adam and Eve (and the entire human race) experienced suffering for the first time. Sin spread, and so suffering spread—all due to man’s choice.

But was Adam’s choice to sin a direct result of God “making” him sin? This is certainly not the case. If it were, then God would be the author of sin, thus making himself a sinner. But he is not. James reminds us that God cannot even be tempted to sin (James 1:13).
But again, was Adam’s choice to sin a result of some spontaneous, uninhibited will beyond God’s control? This could not have been the case for reasons spelled out previously.

But how do we reconcile all of this? Our goal as Christians should be to learn to affirm what the Bible affirms and deny what the Bible denies, for it is our highest authority. The Bible affirms God’s sovereignty over man’s actions (Genesis 50:20), and yet at the same time the Bible denies that God is the author, or doer, of sin (2 Corinthians 5:21; James 1:13).

So somehow God is able to ordain that evil exist, all the while abstaining from any spot of sinfulness. How all this works is a mystery. But let there be no mistake that it works. And that is what we have attempted to show.

Let there be hope, then. God is in control of all things, no matter the circumstance. This truth should give rise to joy and utter happiness in the heart of the Christian. All things will truly work out for our good and his glory, since “our God is in the heavens; He does whatever He pleases” (Psalm 115:3).
 
#143
#143
mtt2d said:
I try to be as careful and as gentle as possible. I've never told a person they were predestined to hell.
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You have been saying it with just about every post. At least that is what they will get from your posts. The debate about predestination is one that believers can have and not worry about salvation. That is not the case with unbelievers. A public forum such as this is the place for milk, not meat.
 
#146
#146
bamacheats said:
Predestination makes sin impossible.
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RespectTradition said:
God predestined that those who chose his son would be saved. He did not predestine who would make that choice.

If he did, then everything and I mean everything about the bible and religion is totally pointless.
Click to expand...

Correct. As Nietzsche would say, such a mechanism of creation would make life utterly "absurd".
 
#147
#147
T-TownVol said:
So somehow God is able to ordain that evil exist, all the while abstaining from any spot of sinfulness. How all this works is a mystery. But let there be no mistake that it works. And that is what we have attempted to show.
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This is one of the silliest arguments for overcoming the problem of evil that I have come across.

T-TownVol said:
You have been saying it with just about every post. At least that is what they will get from your posts. The debate about predestination is one that believers can have and not worry about salvation.
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I am not sure that nonbelievers such as myself truly care about being denied Christian "salvation". It would be like a Muslim talking about you being eternally damned to hell for the life path you have chosen in your life. In every other religion besides your sect of Christianity, you are denied entrance to a heaven-like place and eternal life. Most religions would also send you to a Hell or Hades like place. Us "nonbelievers" are simply a plus-one.

T-TownVol said:
That is not the case with unbelievers. A public forum such as this is the place for milk, not meat.
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I disagree with you, I think the public forum is an appropriate place for exchange of ideas.
 
#149
#149
DinkinFlicka said:
There's no free will with Christianity anyway. If you don't submit to God, you burn in hell for all eternity. It's option A or option suck.
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Not entirely true.
For some people submission to God would be Hell.
Free will is intact. go where He is or go where He is not.


I Like your new avatar.
 
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