MTG: How to stop mass shootings

#301
#301

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#303
#303
Vol8188 said:
The business owner is also an individual.

Reason Report: Jo Jorgensen Supports Mask Mandates for Government Buildings
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A business or corporation is not an individual. No where in what you posted did she say she agreed with any mask or vaccine mandates. Plus it was never proven that a mask prevented anyone from getting Covid nor did it prevent the spread. And we see that these Covid vaccines may not be working as advertised. So I take it you believe the business should be held responsible and employees should be able to file a lawsuit against that business if they were to develop side effects from the vaccine that their employer encouraged, coerced, or forced them to take?

I am going to suggest you listen to Shane Hazel on the issue of companies forcing vaccine mandates on their employees.

I'm also going to suggest you read the preamble and sections 1.0 and 1.1 of the Libertarian Party platform and get back to me.

Vaccine mandates and mask mandates are not traits or principles of Libertarianism. Neither is this semi-religious mantra on this forum by some that private businesses can do as they please.
 
#304
#304
TRUEFANVol said:
Probably so. No one praises Biden in this forum, but there sure is praise for Trump .They both suck as far as I am concerned. I'm just stating facts about this forum
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Most of you are too embarrassed to praise Biden and anyone that voted for him will not admit their mistake. They take the cowardly way out and continue to their childish attacks on Trump. In other words they are often exhibiting the same exact behavior that they accuse Trump of.
 
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#305
#305
DonjoVol said:
A business or corporation is not an individual. No where in what you posted did she say she agreed with any mask or vaccine mandates. Plus it was never proven that a mask prevented anyone from getting Covid nor did it prevent the spread. And we see that these Covid vaccines may not be working as advertised. So I take it you believe the business should be held responsible and employees should be able to file a lawsuit against that business if they were to develop side effects from the vaccine that their employer encouraged, coerced, or forced them to take?

I am going to suggest you listen to Shane Hazel on the issue of companies forcing vaccine mandates on their employees.

I'm also going to suggest you read the preamble and sections 1.0 and 1.1 of the Libertarian Party platform and get back to me.

Vaccine mandates and mask mandates are not traits or principles of Libertarianism. Neither is this semi-religious mantra on this forum by some that private businesses can do as they please.
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She agrees with allowing the business to set their own rules. Which is a trait/principle of libertarianism. I'm well aware of the party platform, I'm the former president of a county libertarian party. There's nothing unclear about what she says here. She supports government building mandates. She supports allowing businesses to make their own mandates and sees the mandates as a good thing.

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#306
#306
Vol8188 said:
She agrees with allowing the business to set their own rules. Which is a trait/principle of libertarianism. I'm well aware of the party platform, I'm the former president of a county libertarian party. There's nothing unclear about what she says here. She supports government building mandates. She supports allowing businesses to make their own mandates and sees the mandates as a good thing.

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So you would be okay if an employer required as a condition of employment that the employee join a union? Are you also against state occupational licensing?
 
#307
#307
DonjoVol said:
So you would be okay if an employer required as a condition of employment that the employee join a union? Are you also against state occupational licensing?
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We should start with you accepting that you were wrong about libertarianism and the stance of party members. Then I'll gladly answer anything else you wish.
 
#308
#308
Vol8188 said:
She agrees with allowing the business to set their own rules. Which is a trait/principle of libertarianism. I'm well aware of the party platform, I'm the former president of a county libertarian party. There's nothing unclear about what she says here. She supports government building mandates. She supports allowing businesses to make their own mandates and sees the mandates as a good thing.

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If you are well aware of the platform then you will have no problem sharing with the forum what the preamble along with sections 1.0 and 1.1 of the platform. I'm also having a hard time believing some of your claims on here by the way.

Mask mandates and vaccine mandates are not libertarian principles and no where in their platform does it state business owners have special privileges and rights over other individuals.

Do you believe in mask and vaccine mandates?
 
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#309
Vol8188 said:
We should start with you accepting that you were wrong about libertarianism and the stance of party members. Then I'll gladly answer anything else you wish.
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I'm not wrong as stated in the preamble and sections 1.0 and 1.1 of the national LP Platform. Which other state parties accept as well. The individual is more important than any business.

And you won't answer those questions because you will expose yourself as not following Libertarian principles.
 
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#310
DonjoVol said:
If you are well aware of the platform then you will have no problem sharing with the forum what the preamble along with sections 1.0 and 1.1 of the platform. I'm also having a hard time believing some of your claims on here by the way.

Mask mandates and vaccine mandates are not libertarian principles and no where in their platform does it state business owners have special privileges and rights over other individuals.

Do you believe in mask and vaccine mandates?
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Your problem is the word "mandate" which implies government. But businesses can require anything they want. What's the fundamental difference between a business requiring you wear a shirt and shoes for service or requiring a mask?

What are you questioning? I gave you direct quotes from here, which align with everyone except for you in terms of their perception of libertarianism. Business owners are individuals. An individual owning a business may make whatever requirement of you they wish. No different than your ability to require people wear masks within your home.
 
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#311
DonjoVol said:
I'm not wrong as stated in the preamble and sections 1.0 and 1.1 of the national LP Platform. Which other state parties accept as well. The individual is more important than any business.

And you won't answer those questions because you will expose yourself as not following Libertarian principles.
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Individuals own businesses. What questions will I not answer?

If you own a house, you may make me wear a mask to enter. If you own a business, why would you not have the same right? Why would individuals who own businesses be subject to lesser property rights than yourself?
 
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#312
#312
DonjoVol said:
no where in their platform does it state business owners have special privileges and rights over other individuals.
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This one line may be the most ignorant statement in VN history.

A business owner determining entry requirements for their business is not a privilege nor a right over you or anyone else. Because you do not have to go to their business. Just like you do not have to enter the homes of people who require you wear a mask inside their home.

You seem to fundamentally misunderstand all of this.
 
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#313
#313
DonjoVol said:
I'm not wrong as stated in the preamble and sections 1.0 and 1.1 of the national LP Platform. Which other state parties accept as well. The individual is more important than any business.

And you won't answer those questions because you will expose yourself as not following Libertarian principles.
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At a minimum you should admit you're wrong about Jo's stance, given I've provided you with direct quotes from her.
 
#314
#314
Vol8188 said:
Your problem is the word "mandate" which implies government. But businesses can require anything they want. What's the fundamental difference between a business requiring you wear a shirt and shoes for service or requiring a mask?

What are you questioning? I gave you direct quotes from here, which align with everyone except for you in terms of their perception of libertarianism. Business owners are individuals. An individual owning a business may make whatever requirement of you they wish. No different than your ability to require people wear masks within your home.
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Why do you blatantly refuse to share for the forum the preamble and sections 1.0 and 1.1 of the Libertarian Party platform?

Mandate does not just involve government. And as we saw the Biden administration encouraging private businesses to make vaccine mandates. Businesses can make mandates in conjunction with politicians and at the government's "request". This does not make it right and violates the Libertarian principle that people have domain over their own bodies and should be making their own medical decisions. Which is also stated in the Libertarian Party platform.

What you are advocating is special privileges for business owners as well as corporate totalitarianism. Neither are part of the Libertarian Party platform.

You also have failed to prove than any mask or vaccine mandate was effective.
 
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#315
Vol8188 said:
Individuals own businesses. What questions will I not answer?

If you own a house, you may make me wear a mask to enter. If you own a business, why would you not have the same right? Why would individuals who own businesses be subject to lesser property rights than yourself?
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Why as a business owner would you want to require employees to have a vaccine as a condition of employment? Especially when there is still debate on whether that vaccine is effective or not.
 
#316
#316
DonjoVol said:
Why do you blatantly refuse to share for the forum the preamble and sections 1.0 and 1.1 of the Libertarian Party platform?

Mandate does not just involve government. And as we saw the Biden administration encouraging private businesses to make vaccine mandates. Businesses can make mandates in conjunction with politicians and at the government's "request". This does not make it right and violates the Libertarian principle that people have domain over their own bodies and should be making their own medical decisions. Which is also stated in the Libertarian Party platform.

What you are advocating is special privileges for business owners as well as corporate totalitarianism. Neither are part of the Libertarian Party platform.

You also have failed to prove than any mask or vaccine mandate was effective.
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You've already mentioned the party platform. The issue isn't the platform but your lack of understanding of it.

Why would I have to prove mask or vaccine mandates were effective? That has nothing to do with the fact that you misunderstand libertarianism and blatantly lied about Jo's stance on the matter.

What special privileges am I advocating for on behalf of business owners? The right to hire/fire as they see fit? That's not a special privilege.
 
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#317
#317
DonjoVol said:
Why as a business owner would you want to require employees to have a vaccine as a condition of employment? Especially when there is still debate on whether that vaccine is effective or not.
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What I would do with my business is not the topic right. Your lies about Jo and misunderstandings about libertarianism are.
 
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#318
Vol8188 said:
What I would do with my business is not the topic right. Your lies about Jo and misunderstandings about libertarianism are.
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You have also failed to mention the preamble and sections 1.0 and 1.1. You're deflecting and avoiding it because you know you will be exposed as being against the core, fundamental principles of libertarianism.

Show me where Jo was for vaccine mandates. You cannot. Also show me where Shane Hazel, another Libertarian, is for vaccine mandates by private businesses. You won't be able to do that as well. Show me where the Mises Caucus is for anything you are advocating. Did Ron Paul support any of this nonsense? Vaccines and masks should be up to the individual. That's what Jo has been advocating.

If you think it's okay for businesses to mandate masks or vaccines then surely you've done your research on their effectiveness. So please tell me how either of these mandates would be effective. And why they would be a good idea.
 
#319
#319
DonjoVol said:
You have also failed to mention the preamble and sections 1.0 and 1.1. You're deflecting and avoiding it because you know you will be exposed as being against the core, fundamental principles of libertarianism.

Show me where Jo was for vaccine mandates. You cannot. Also show me where Shane Hazel, another Libertarian, is for vaccine mandates by private businesses. You won't be able to do that as well. Show me where the Mises Caucus is for anything you are advocating. Did Ron Paul support any of this nonsense? Vaccines and masks should be up to the individual. That's what Jo has been advocating.

If you think it's okay for businesses to mandate masks or vaccines then surely you've done your research on their effectiveness. So please tell me how either of these mandates would be effective. And why they would be a good idea.
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We've mentioned it multiple times. You fail to understand it.

Jo specifically stated she was for businesses mandating masks if they wish to do so. I even highlighted it for you. Give up. You have no clue what you're talking about.
 
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#320
#320
Vol8188 said:
We've mentioned it multiple times. You fail to understand it.

Jo specifically stated she was for businesses mandating masks if they wish to do so. I even highlighted it for you. Give up. You have no clue what you're talking about.
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Mask and vaccine mandates are not libertarian principles. The fact that your are also unwilling to share what's in the actual LP Party platform itself means even you know I'm right on this topic. What Jo was stating is that Kroger for example can make a mask mandate and that people were willing to comply. Why? Because people need to buy groceries. However I don't think they would throw anyone out for refusing to wear one either. At least not here in East Tennessee. The choice should be up to the individual to wear the mask or not. Just like it should be up to the individual if they want the vaccine or not.

Business owners, businesses and corporations do not have special privileges and rights over other individuals. No where is that stated in the Libertarian Party platform.
 
#321
#321
DonjoVol said:
Mask and vaccine mandates are not libertarian principles. The fact that your are also unwilling to share what's in the actual LP Party platform itself means even you know I'm right on this topic. What Jo was stating is that Kroger for example can make a mask mandate and that people were willing to comply. Why? Because people need to buy groceries. However I don't think they would throw anyone out for refusing to wear one either. At least not here in East Tennessee. The choice should be up to the individual to wear the mask or not. Just like it should be up to the individual if they want the vaccine or not.

Business owners, businesses and corporations do not have special privileges and rights over other individuals. No where is that stated in the Libertarian Party platform.
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On my cell so it’s hard to post the section you want to reference. Go ahead and post it and I’ll gladly address it for you
 
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#322
#322
Vol8188 said:
On my cell so it’s hard to post the section you want to reference. Go ahead and post it and I’ll gladly address it for you
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On my cell too. So I'll post later today when I have time. I'll also post where Jo and Ron Paul both are against vaccine mandates.
 
#324
#324
Vol8188 said:
Government mandates. That’s a different thing
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Ron Paul stated that when he was a physician that it was his patients choice to get vaccinated and not his choice. Even though he thought they should and that was his recommendation. In the end it was about personal choice.
 
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