MVP and ROTY

Who is the NFL's Most Valuable Player?

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#126
#126
volfanjustin said:
Luck has also threw 599 passes, Griffin threw 375. Griffin has a running game, Luck does not. The Colts are not running the read option. Other than Wayne and Avery the rest of his options are rookies. Of the 26 QBs who have started at least 12 games, Griffin and Wilson have the fewest passing attempts. Cousins came in and led the skins to a comeback win over the Ravens and a win over the Browns. That shows how much they need Griffin.

I am trying to understand all the hype around Griffin, I can't really understand it. Is it because he plays in a big market?
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What's the hype about Luck. SECOND IN THE NFL IN TURNOVERS. QB Rating below Foles, Ponder, Tannehill and Gabbert. 33rd in competition % (below Mark Sanchez and Brandon Weeden)
 
#127
#127
Yankee_Vol said:
What's the hype about Luck. SECOND IN THE NFL IN TURNOVERS. QB Rating below Foles, Ponder, Tannehill and Gabbert. 33rd in competition % (below Mark Sanchez and Brandon Weeden)
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And first in 4th quarter comebacks. He is a special talent. He will have a better career than RGIII. And that is not a knock of RGIII, because I really like him.
 
#128
#128
Yankee_Vol said:
What's the hype about Luck. SECOND IN THE NFL IN TURNOVERS. QB Rating below Foles, Ponder, Tannehill and Gabbert. 33rd in competition % (below Mark Sanchez)
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Maybe because he took a team that was 2-14 to the playoffs? 7 come back wins in 4th qtr/OT? His coaches aren't holding him back by running a college offense, they are throwing him in and saying sink or swim. By the way, your guy has had 12 fumbles, he has just been lucky not to lose a lot of them. Luck is throwing to 4 rookie receivers. Let Griffin throw it 599 times behind a patch work o line, and not rolling out but 3 and 5 step drops, I guarantee his numbers would not look so great either.
 
#129
#129
VolBuck24 said:
The only position the pats have more talent on offense at is tight end, and even then both of them haven't been healthy at the same time in a while. No matter how you try to spin it, Brady's year is easily MVP worthy.
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This is ludicrous. They have the best slot ever to play football, two uncoverable tight ends, and great receiving backs. They also gameplan better than everyone else. They are the current version of the Theismann era Redskins. There are now throws that Brady isn't very good at, particularly down the field on on the deeper outs.

MVP worthy means more valuable than everyone else, and by almost any measure available, he falls short of at least one other player. GTFO with this "mvp worthy" silliness. That's talk.
 
#130
#130
BigPapaVol said:
This is ludicrous. They have the best slot ever to play football, two uncoverable tight ends, and great receiving backs. They also gameplan better than everyone else. They are the current version of the Theismann era Redskins. There are now throws that Brady isn't very good at, particularly down the field on on the deeper outs.

MVP worthy means more valuable than everyone else, and by almost any measure available, he falls short of at least one other player. GTFO with this "mvp worthy" silliness. That's talk.
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GTFO, his QBR isn't worthy of jack. Guy turned it over 247 times. Weak schedule due to being 2-14 last season. Griffin had a dramatically better season. Kid's QBR is through the roof and what he brings made the running game available. Luck had nothing to do with any running game at Indy.
 
#132
#132
What exactly is the knock on Griffin using aspects of his college offense? That's literally downgrading him for doing something he is good at.
 
#133
#133
005 said:
What exactly is the knock on Griffin using aspects of his college offense? That's literally downgrading him for doing something he is good at.
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It's just stupid commentary. It's good coaching to force defenses to account for him as a runner who can go yard on them at any time. It's the element that made Vick deadly and Reid neutering his running is the reason he is now utterly useless.
 
#134
#134
BigPapaVol said:
GTFO, his QBR isn't worthy of jack. Guy turned it over 247 times. Weak schedule due to being 2-14 last season. Griffin had a dramatically better season. Kid's QBR is through the roof and what he brings made the running game available. Luck had nothing to do with any running game at Indy.
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Weak schedule? You mean like playing the Packers, Bears, Texans (twice) Patriots and Vikings? Leads league in 4th qtr/OT comebacks. Has converted a ton of 3rd downs (some with his legs)
 
#136
#136
005 said:
What exactly is the knock on Griffin using aspects of his college offense? That's literally downgrading him for doing something he is good at.
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Nothing, let him keep running it but we have seen this before. He will miss games every season because he will be hurt. And it's not like he is having to read coverages. He is in the pistol, play actions off the read options and throws to one receiver with one on one coverage.
 
#137
#137
Ok.. him being an injury risk is a real concern. But criticizing him for... being effective on offense? Is a weird one.
 
#138
#138
For the record: only two games a season are scheduled based on the previous season's standings. The other fourteen games are based on a predetermined formula that has nothing to do with record.
 
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#139
#139
volfanjustin said:
Weak schedule? You mean like playing the Packers, Bears, Texans (twice) Patriots and Vikings? Leads league in 4th qtr/OT comebacks. Has converted a ton of 3rd downs (some with his legs)
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they beat any teams over 500, save GB when they were losing every week? They won a bunch of games against garbage and Luck generally sucked against every team that could play even a little.

The 4Q comebacks stat is ludicrous. Name me any QB, including those who suck, who have not converted a ton of 3rd downs.
 
#141
#141
volfanjustin said:
Nothing, let him keep running it but we have seen this before. He will miss games every season because he will be hurt. And it's not like he is having to read coverages. He is in the pistol, play actions off the read options and throws to one receiver with one on one coverage.
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He might get hurt so luck's 243 turnovers were better? The kid has thrown 5 picks or something crazy like that. Luck has nearly done that in single games.

The silliness about his lack of need to read defenses is absurd. Kid is accurate, has a strong arm and can run it. He's a bigger weekly threat to beat you than Luck is. That might change in the future, but that has nothing to do with the better player this season. Luck's 5,437 passing attempts are just statistical garbage.
 
#142
#142
BigPapaVol said:
they beat any teams over 500, save GB when they were losing every week? They won a bunch of games against garbage and Luck generally sucked against every team that could play even a little.

The 4Q comebacks stat is ludicrous. Name me any QB, including those who suck, who have not converted a ton of 3rd downs.
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So the fact that he has come from behind in the 4th quarter (and won) in 7 of his first career 15 games is "ludicrous". Child please.
 
#143
#143
Scotty's Flat Top said:
So the fact that he has come from behind in the 4th quarter (and won) in 7 of his first career 15 games is "ludicrous". Child please.
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he freaking got them behind in the 4th quarter and lost as many of those as he won. That's a horseshiz media driven stat. It's also helped by the fact that he played a bunch of garbage teams who can't win anything. At a minimum, he plays on a team that understands winning games.
 
#144
#144
I'm not biased. I hate the Colts, and root for the Giants after the Titans. So I don't like the Skins either. But Luck is the better QB. Stats may not back that. But if I had to build my team around a young QB.. I'd go Luck.
 
#146
#146
TheDeeble said:
Denver won their division last year, minus Manning plus Tebow.

Take away Manning and their not a bad team.

Take away Peterson and the Vikings have got nothing at all to go with the NFL's worst passing offense.
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Arizona's got the worst passing offense, they've just thrown it 120 more times than Minnesota.

It's funny the way you structured this argument, since Denver was indeed the 2nd worst passing team last year.

Honestly, nobody here knows what Minnesota's record would be without AP. Same goes for Manning. All we know is that Manning got added to an 8-8 team, and now they are tied for the AFC's best record. Denver went from 25th in scoring to 2nd. That's real. Everything else is speculation.
 
#147
#147
BigPapaVol said:
no I don't. Of the subjective piece of the schedule, they get two gimmes. That's a 4 game standings swing.
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Look at the record the 5 years prior. The only reason they won 2 games is because they had no QB. Had they had a halfway capable backup for Manning they would have been a lot better.

and i was talking to justin about the 2-14 record
 
#148
#148
BigPapaVol said:
no I don't. Of the subjective piece of the schedule, they get two gimmes. That's a 4 game standings swing.
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A potential 4 game swing. And, it would only be two games in the standings. 2-0 vs 0-2. Is there something I'm missing? I've been wrong before, but I can't see this one.
 
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