Name your most hated ESPN analyst

[gainesvol82]

that guy can generate more controllable clubhead speed than almost anyone in the world. Call it what you like, but generating the heat he does with the control he has is extremely athletic.

Seriously?? Generating club speed with wrist control=athleticism? So by that logic competitive masturbators are the best athletes in the world. Great point.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Seriously?? Generating club speed with wrist control=athleticism? So by that logic competitive masturbators are the best athletes in the world. Great point.

you're getting further and further away from anything sensible. Wrist control has nothing to do with driving the golf ball well or long. In fact, the modern swing minimizes much of the wrist action in the swing.

You simply have no idea what you're talking about. Why come to a joust with a switch in hand?

 

[jjay2518]

Driving distance is about technique. It's not very hard to hit a golf ball a long way if you have good technique and hit the ball in the right place. My comment about women is due to the fact that you always find a way to compare women to men in a disrespectful way.

So then how are pitchers more athletic than golfers? It can be argued that good pitching is purely technique, the most running they do is to the dugout and back (if you consider DH's), and they get 5 days off between games.

 

[Volholla]

Took the words right out of my mouth, sir. I remember him once saying Tiger Woods was not as good as everyone think he is.

Okay, when I wrote this.. I was not referring to Skip Bayless saying Tiger is not the best athlete in the world.

Everyone knows this is not the case. Im talking about the golf world, and Skip Bayless believes Tiger Woods is not as good as everyone thinks in the golf world.

Make a little more sense? That is why I disagree with Skip Bayless, and feel he just says crap to be "controversial"

 

[bronco104]

I still don't get how a man with a stutter that you can barely understand is one of the analysts for ESPN. What does he have going for him? His insights are horrible, he has a stutter, and he's old....

Doesn't Holtz tend to look like his former team's mascots? At Notre Dame, he looked just like a leprechaun... and at USC, he seemed to look just like a chicken pacing the barnyard.

 

[gainesvol82]

While it's clear to me that you know nothing of the modern golf game, we'll just leave it at they perform a physical activity that other athletes cannot.

So because I don't agree with your ridiculous point of view I know nothing? Sounds like a religious fanatic to me. I love how you make such a big deal about "the modern game of golf" as if it is played drastically different. This isn't football. The basic rules and concept of golf is the same as it was 100 years ago.

 

[kev20]

Doesn't Holtz tend to look like his former team's mascots? At Notre Dame, he looked just like a leprechaun... and at USC, he seemed to look just like a chicken pacing the barnyard.

I know what you wanted to say there....

 

[gainesvol82]

So then how are pitchers more athletic than golfers? It can be argued that good pitching is purely technique, the most running they do is to the dugout and back (if you consider DH's), and they get 5 days off between games.

Look back a few pages and you'll see that I made the point that baseball teeters between a game of skill and athleticism specifically because of pitchers. That said, throwing a baseball 95 mph does require athletic ability. Besides, pitchers have to field and have to bat in the NL.

 

[VOLinthaNATI]

So because I don't agree with your ridiculous point of view I know nothing? Sounds like a religious fanatic to me. I love how you make such a big deal about "the modern game of golf" as if it is played drastically different. This isn't football. The basic rules and concept of golf is the same as it was 100 years ago.

You continue to dig yourself a hole and continue to show us all that you know nothing about the game of golf.

 

[BigPapaVol]

So because I don't agree with your ridiculous point of view I know nothing? Sounds like a religious fanatic to me. I love how you make such a big deal about "the modern game of golf" as if it is played drastically different. This isn't football. The basic rules and concept of golf is the same as it was 100 years ago.

If you knew what you don't know, you wouldn't make such absurd statements.

 

[Volholla]

Granted I do believe Tiger could beat David Wells in a race, but who cares?????

 

[Vercingetorix]

Look back a few pages and you'll see that I made the point that baseball teeters between a game of skill and athleticism specifically because of pitchers. That said, throwing a baseball 95 mph does require athletic ability. Besides, pitchers have to field and have to bat in the NL.

I love baseball, but it's not much more a game of athleticism than golf is. Which, of course, is why I'd never hold up a baseball player as a great athlete. Being a good athlete helps you with the running and throwing and catching part of baseball, of course, but the most fundamental part of the part of the game is still hitting and pitching, and pure athleticism doesn't really help anybody much with either of those skills.

(Bo Jackson and Jim Thorpe were two of the greatest athletes in American history, for example, but neither of them could really hit much.)

 

[VOLinthaNATI]

I love baseball, but it's not much more a game of athleticism than golf is. Which, of course, is why I'd never hold up a baseball player as a great athlete. Being a good athlete helps you with the running and throwing and catching part of baseball, of course, but the most fundamental part of the part of the game is still hitting and pitching, and pure athleticism doesn't really help anybody much with either of those skills.

(Bo Jackson and Jim Thorpe were two of the greatest athletes in American history, for example, but neither of them could really hit much.)

You are obviously a very smart guy but I absolutely disagree with your thoughts above....just wanted to let you know

 

[BigPapaVol]

I love baseball, but it's not much more a game of athleticism than golf is. Which, of course, is why I'd never hold up a baseball player as a great athlete. Being a good athlete helps you with the running and throwing and catching part of baseball, of course, but the most fundamental part of the part of the game is still hitting and pitching, and pure athleticism doesn't really help anybody much with either of those skills.

(Bo Jackson and Jim Thorpe were two of the greatest athletes in American history, for example, but neither of them could really hit much.)

bat speed is an enormous part of the equation in hitting.

 

[CubsFanTN]

Is this enough to get this thread back on track?

 

[Vercingetorix]

bat speed is an enormous part of the equation in hitting.

Agreed. You can't hit in the majors if you can't get the bat around. But there's so much more to it than that, and I don't know how much what we (or at least I) think of as "athleticism" factors into it.

I mean, career averages:

Bo Jackson .250
Deion Sanders .263
John Kruk .300
Tony Gwynn .338

 

[Vercingetorix]

You are obviously a very smart guy but I absolutely disagree with your thoughts above....just wanted to let you know

Heh. Just trying to be consistent. I spent all afternoon comparing golf against one standard of "athleticism," so it's only fair for me to hold baseball (a sport I love) to the same standard...

 

[BigPapaVol]

Agreed. You can't hit in the majors if you can't get the bat around. But there's so much more to it than that, and I don't know how much what we (or at least I) think of as "athleticism" factors into it.

I mean, career averages:

Bo Jackson .250
Deion Sanders .263
John Kruk .300
Tony Gwynn .338

hand eye coordination is a big part of it too

 

[hndog609]

I'm likely stepping in it but I had one of those "athletic" discussions recently so let me inject what I came up with. I also want to state that I golf myself so let's not have anyone think I'm bashing any aspect of golf. (ok, young attractive cheerleaders would be nice)

First, and this is extremely important, there MUST be a differentiation made between what is a skill (or set thereof) and what is, in and of itself, athletic. Like a hard-line Constitutionalist I take a literal stand as to what is a skill and what is athletic, which is to say the two can operate quite apart from one another. I argue that, by definition, athleticism is a purely physical measurement that is both tangible, repeatable and comparable. Strength, speed, vertical leap, etc are all examples of this. Other aspects, while they may be of tremendous value in competing in whatever sport, are added to, not included with, someones "athletic" ability. For instance, you could literally have the strongest/fastest/highest jumping/longest jumping/highest endurance person that ever trod the planet have pretty lousy hand-eye coordination and lousy "touch". There's plenty of precedent for this. Ever see someone with fantastic athletic ability that could not catch a football or shoot a basketball worth a crap?

Let's take an example oft cited in this thread which is that the golfing drive is in fact very athletic and in some way demonstrates how success at the highest levels of golf infers a high degree of athleticism. Well, for the '07 season the man universally acknowledged as the best athlete in golf could manage no better than a tie for 12th in driving distance. This means that the best athlete in the sport could not crack the top 10 in that sport's most athletic aspect. Perhaps more telling is that of the top 10 longest drivers (most athletic?) only 2 managed to finish in the top 50 in FedEx Cup ranking and more than half (6) couldn't break the top 100. Chicks may dig the long ball but what makes Tiger so darned amazing is that Tiger is neither the longest driver nor anywhere near the most accurate (152nd in driving % for '07) but is #1 for greens in regulation. He gets on from ANYWHERE and then makes the putt. (4th in putts per GIR) I apologize for being so lengthy but the point is that even if you are taking the skewed stance of using the most "athletic" guy available to prop up the golfers-as-athletes argument you still come out with the part of his game that really makes the difference (course management, distance control, touch, putting, scrambling from trouble, mental toughness) having little if any athletic components whatsoever. Those are skills/traits, not examples of any athletic prowess.

Another really good way (or at least the way I got a concession from the people I was discussing this with) is to argue what is athletically inclusive or exclusive. There is absolutely no way for us to KNOW what NFL or NBA players could have become really good at golf if they genuinely applied themselves to the task when they were young but ask yourself this; how many PGA tour members do you think could compete in the athletic components* of the NFL or NBA?

*And before you get too far into that line of thought let's all drop any self-serving specialized examples. Football QB's and to an even greater extent kickers and baseball pitchers are specialized sub-groups of how a game is played. Huge concessions for lack of athleticism are perfectly acceptable for skills in these instances. If you can make the kick/read the D and make the pass/put the bat on the ball nobody'd give a crap if you ran a 12 second 40, had a 110lb max bench and had a 2" vertical.

Anyway, athletically inclusive and exclusive. The "real" athletic sports are athletically exlusive. You MUST be an athlete (see above*) to play. The average ht/wt of the previously mentioned 10 longest golf drivers (ostensibly the most athletic) is 6'/190. Now compare those, apples to apples, with participants to the other major sports of like stature. Football RB's/DB's/WR's and basketball point guards for instance. If you aren't a really REALLY good athlete you don't even make a scout squad in those sports. You don't even get invited to the combine. It's exclusive company. Now, if you happen to have good athletic ability to go along with your skill set in less athletic games I can't imagine how that would be a detriment.

Crap. I apologize this got so long winded but I was trying to get most if not all of it out there instead of the little one liners back and forth.

 

[mcompton]

<laughing my ass off>...the summer is so slow that we are arguing whether or not golfers are athletes???...While they may not have been 20 yrs ago...Tiger changed that, which is why most golfers (that want to continue to compete) have changed their training habits. BPV, I'm a 4.3 handicap, and will offer my services as a caddie if you want to take TennesseeT out for a whippin...you people kill me...

 

[hndog609]

<laughing my ass off>...the summer is so slow that we are arguing whether or not golfers are athletes???...While they may not have been 20 yrs ago...Tiger changed that, which is why most golfers (that want to continue to compete) have changed their training habits. BPV, I'm a 4.3 handicap, and will offer my services as a caddie if you want to take TennesseeT out for a whippin...you people kill me...

Fall practice is just around the corner though, right?

 

[mcompton]

God, I hope so...I'm leaving for LA 4 weeks from this coming Saturday....Go Vols

 

[BigPapaVol]

uhh, hndog,

Tiger is the longest guy out there when he wants to be.
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[hndog609]

uhh, hndog,

Tiger is the longest guy out there when he wants to be.
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What do you want me to say BP? The man hasn't won the driving title once. I mean, if you're wanting to argue that he just doesn't want to outdrive the others you can say that but...:dunno:

(For the record Tiger is plenty long. His tie for 12th last year was still good for 302+ yds but the fact remains he was tied for 12th)

 

[BigPapaVol]

What do you want me to say BP? The man hasn't won the driving title once. I mean, if you're wanting to argue that he just doesn't want to outdrive the others you can say that but...:dunno:

(For the record Tiger is plenty long. His tie for 12th last year was still good for 302+ yds but the fact remains he was tied for 12th)

there isn't one of them that can hit a 2 iron as far as woods. not to mention that when he lets the big dog eat, Bubba ain't outdriving him.
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