Name your most hated ESPN analyst

#176
#176
BigPapaVol said:
Entirely different animals. The modern game of golf now demands such driving skill that it changed who can really get it done. Even your boy Phil has changed. The guy who has explosive pop to compete on the tour combined with mental faculty, soft touch and absurd putting can compete. All others can stay home. Generating big clubhead speed has changed the game to a much more athletic endeavor.
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So the golfers of say twenty years ago were not athletes? But now the best are? So Jack, Arnold, and Bobby could not compete with the golfers of today because todays' game requires more athleticism? Have the average driving distances on tour really changed that much? And if they have is it due to athleticism or technology or today's clubs and balls.

Putting, and chipping for that matter, has absolutley zero to do with athleticism! If you can't admit at least that much then there is no hope.
 
#177
#177
I'm a helluva disc (frisbee) golfer and will beat anyone on here at it! Mark it down.

Drive fo sho and putt fo dough baby!
 
#178
#178
BigPapaVol said:
Entirely different animals. The modern game of golf now demands such driving skill that it changed who can really get it done. Even your boy Phil has changed. The guy who has explosive pop to compete on the tour combined with mental faculty, soft touch and absurd putting can compete. All others can stay home. Generating big clubhead speed has changed the game to a much more athletic endeavor.
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I wouldn't dispute that at all, but I just don't see how there's _enough_ of an athletic component to golf for its top performers to be seriously regarded as "great athletes." When a bunch of the top players are doughboys, and Tiger can still win a tournament when he can barely walk around the course, then regarding these guys as great athletes stretches the word to the point where it has little meaning. IMO. I've had the same argument with the Nascar guys a few times, when they claim that their drivers are athletes because of the strength and endurance that it takes to hold a car on the track for two hours.

In other words, it's a mostly semantic argument, which means that there's no way to resolve it.
 
#179
#179
Vercingetorix said:
I wouldn't dispute that at all, but I just don't see how there's _enough_ of an athletic component to golf for its top performers to be seriously regarded as "great athletes." When a bunch of the top players are doughboys, and Tiger can still win a tournament when he can barely walk around the course, then regarding these guys as great athletes stretches the word to the point where it has little meaning. IMO. I've had the same argument with the Nascar guys a few times, when they claim that their drivers are athletes because of the strength and endurance that it takes to hold a car on the track for two hours.

In other words, it's a mostly semantic argument, which means that there's no way to resolve it.
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It's a semantic argument for sure, but those who can generate 120 mph of clubhead speed and have incredible touch and have the mental strength to retain that touch under pressure are the guys you see weekly on tour. There are only 125 spots for them in the world. That's a pretty elite crowd.
 
#180
#180
TennesseeT said:
So the golfers of say twenty years ago were not athletes? But now the best are? So Jack, Arnold, and Bobby could not compete with the golfers of today because todays' game requires more athleticism? Have the average driving distances on tour really changed that much? And if they have is it due to athleticism or technology or today's clubs and balls.

Putting, and chipping for that matter, has absolutley zero to do with athleticism! If you can't admit at least that much then there is no hope.
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The very best golfers of yesteryear were phenomenal athletes, but you could make a living, like Tom Kite, by being a grinder. The game has changed and that's just no longer the case. The driving distances have exploded over the last couple of decades and some of that is technology, but the course setups today just require the guys with big clubhead speed. The plodders just can't compete.

I would submit that the game from 100 yards and in requires the best hand-eye coordination and touch of any part of the game. Average Joe's don't have the touch, hand-eye coordination or mental strength to hit 75 yarders to 5 feet on command in differing weather conditions.
 
#181
#181
BigPapaVol said:
you have no idea what you're talking about. It's exactly why women golfers cannot compete with men. In all of the other garbage listed, they can.
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bigpapa your right, they can't compete, but you have to admit they look good trying.

i don't know who finally came up with the idea of having attractive females play golf, but i would like to shake their hand.
 
#182
#182
BigPapaVol said:
you have no idea what you're talking about. It's exactly why women golfers cannot compete with men. In all of the other garbage listed, they can.
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You are mistaking driving power with athletic ability. Why does every conversation about sports with you come back to an insult to women. Why do you hate women so much?
 
#184
#184
gainesvol82 said:
You are mistaking driving power with athletic ability. Why does every conversation about sports with you come back to an insult to women. Why do you hate women so much?
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ridiculous post.

Driving distance is almost 100% about athletic ability.

Your absurdity regarding women playing is worthless. I'm saying the difference in athleticism between men and women is the reason that there are separate tours. If skill alone dictated everything, then that would not be the case.
 
#185
#185
Vercingetorix said:
I wouldn't dispute that at all, but I just don't see how there's _enough_ of an athletic component to golf for its top performers to be seriously regarded as "great athletes." When a bunch of the top players are doughboys, and Tiger can still win a tournament when he can barely walk around the course, then regarding these guys as great athletes stretches the word to the point where it has little meaning. IMO. I've had the same argument with the Nascar guys a few times, when they claim that their drivers are athletes because of the strength and endurance that it takes to hold a car on the track for two hours.

In other words, it's a mostly semantic argument, which means that there's no way to resolve it.
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Exactly.

Name the the top golfers who are "doughboys"? you can't. Your comment about Mickelson was wrong. He has lost 20 pound in the past few months and I am certain he is a much better athlete than most. He is 6'4" and weighs around 205 right now...oh, BTW can throw a baseball over 90mph, hit the mit where he aimed. Also, by many accounts, has a nasty slider. Oh yeah, does it right handed
 
#186
#186
This is one good ole' pissing match.

BigPapa seems to have the lead here. Just an opinion. The man knows his stuff. I heard he won the 1984 Daytona 500............on horseback.

But seriously, golfers are athletic.
 
#187
#187
BigPapaVol said:
I would submit that the game from 100 yards and in requires the best hand-eye coordination and touch of any part of the game. Average Joe's don't have the touch, hand-eye coordination or mental strength to hit 75 yarders to 5 feet on command in differing weather conditions.
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I just don't equate hand-eye coordination and touch as attributes of athleticism. I taught myself to juggle and can do up to five items. I would say I have above average hand eye coordination. As I said before, I played sports all my life and have some athleticism but I am not an athlete.

I would imagine surgeons have an incredible amount of touch, feel, steady hand, mental fortitude, etc. I do not think they are athletes.

So are golfers reasonably athletic? Probably so but are they anywhere on the same level as the some of the world's greatest athletes and some of the other sport's best players. No way possible.
 
#188
#188
TennesseeT said:
So are golfers reasonably athletic? Probably so but are they anywhere on the same level as the some of the world's greatest athletes and some of the other sport's best players. No way possible.
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again, I wonder why Jordan just sucks at golf?
 
#189
#189
TennesseeT said:
I just don't equate hand-eye coordination and touch as attributes of athleticism. I taught myself to juggle and can do up to five items. I would say I have above average hand eye coordination. As I said before, I played sports all my life and have some athleticism but I am not an athlete.

I would imagine surgeons have an incredible amount of touch, feel, steady hand, mental fortitude, etc. I do not think they are athletes.

So are golfers reasonably athletic? Probably so but are they anywhere on the same level as the some of the world's greatest athletes and some of the other sport's best players. No way possible.
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Baseball players, WR's, hockey players with a good slap shot, you're kidding with that junk. Tell me you are.
 
#190
#190
Business said:
Baseball players, WR's, hockey players with a good slap shot, you're kidding with that junk. Tell me you are.
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Maybe I worded that wrong. Every position you named has a greater attribute that just h-e-c and touch. You don't have to be strong, run fast, jump high, strong arm, etc. to hit a freakin golf ball well.

If 60 year old men can still compete with the games best then athleticism isn't an integral part of the sport.
 
#191
#191
BigPapaVol said:
Your absurdity regarding women playing is worthless. I'm saying the difference in athleticism between men and women is the reason that there are separate tours. If skill alone dictated everything, then that would not be the case.
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Okay, here's a question -- which is greater, the distance between the LPGA and the PGA or the distance between the WNBA and the NBA?

I don't know the answer to this, because I've never watched either an LPGA or WNBA event, but I wonder if you could compare different how athletic different sports are by using the relative gaps between the top male and female performers as a yardstick. In other words, take something like this:

darts -- no difference between men and women
bowling -- some difference
golf -- a lot more difference
basketball -- the differences are so high that it's not even really the same sport
football -- women don't even play the sport

Which looks on the face of it like a pretty good approximation of how "athletic" these various endeavors are.
 
#194
#194
Vercingetorix said:
Okay, here's a question -- which is greater, the distance between the LPGA and the PGA or the distance between the WNBA and the NBA?

I don't know the answer to this, because I've never watched either an LPGA or WNBA event, but I wonder if you could compare different how athletic different sports are by using the relative gaps between the top male and female performers as a yardstick. In other words, take something like this:

darts -- no difference between men and women
bowling -- some difference
golf -- a lot more difference
basketball -- the differences are so high that it's not even really the same sport
football -- women don't even play the sport

Which looks on the face of it like a pretty good approximation of how "athletic" these various endeavors are.
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Just last weekend there was some game at Millington Central High School here in Memphis. Something along the lines of the women's football championship. There was a big article in the CA about it.
 
#196
#196
Vercingetorix said:
Okay, here's a question -- which is greater, the distance between the LPGA and the PGA or the distance between the WNBA and the NBA?

I don't know the answer to this, because I've never watched either an LPGA or WNBA event, but I wonder if you could compare different how athletic different sports are by using the relative gaps between the top male and female performers as a yardstick. In other words, take something like this:

darts -- no difference between men and women
bowling -- some difference
golf -- a lot more difference
basketball -- the differences are so high that it's not even really the same sport
football -- women don't even play the sport

Which looks on the face of it like a pretty good approximation of how "athletic" these various endeavors are.
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I would argue that the difference is negligible in darts, bowling, billiards etc. The difference in golf is enormous, given that pure size makes no difference like it does in basketball. Athleticism is a big deal in basketball and I think the best athletes in the world are NBA basketball players, but freakish size is also a big difference maker in the NBA and can't really be accounted for in this type of comparison.

The difference in the mens and womens golf games is enormous.
 
#197
#197
truefan said:
Exactly.

Name the the top golfers who are "doughboys"? you can't. Your comment about Mickelson was wrong. He has lost 20 pound in the past few months and I am certain he is a much better athlete than most. He is 6'4" and weighs around 205 right now...oh, BTW can throw a baseball over 90mph, hit the mit where he aimed. Also, by many accounts, has a nasty slider. Oh yeah, does it right handed
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That Argentinian guy who won the U.S. Open last year looks like he lives upstairs from a pizza restaurant and next door to a doughnut shop. He won a major last year. The game has changed that much since then?
 
#199
#199
Vercingetorix said:
That Argentinian guy who won the U.S. Open last year looks like he lives upstairs from a pizza restaurant and next door to a doughnut shop. He won a major last year. The game has changed that much since then?
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I know you were just answering his question, but you really can't use that. You seen some MLB and NFL players?
 
#200
#200
Vercingetorix said:
That Argentinian guy who won the U.S. Open last year looks like he lives upstairs from a pizza restaurant and next door to a doughnut shop. He won a major last year. The game has changed that much since then?
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that guy can generate more controllable clubhead speed than almost anyone in the world. Call it what you like, but generating the heat he does with the control he has is extremely athletic.
 
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